🤣🤣🤣😂 Just reading some of the replies it's like watching a comedy show 😂 You guys think joker's harsh when it comes to being harsh towards this company? I'll one up all you. [spoiler] Angry Joe 😄[/spoiler]

I’m devastated about the sun setting, everything me and my hubby have spent years building and perfecting will be lost and likely put behind a paywall if we want to use it again, and for what? New crap that looks like the current crap with little innovation and design (like the luxe set..hideous!) At this time I’m still playing for now, but it feels like it’s a waste because in a few months it’ll be useless, so I may just quit soon, but I’m trying to stay positive that bungle will see all the negativity flooding at them and change their plans to not screw us over, but I’m not holding my breath, I have little to no faith in them.... well done bungle, you’ve managed to push even the most patient of us over the edge. I hope you enjoy losing what few players you had left. Sincerely.

I don't need a nasally dork to tell me Bungie makes bad choices.

The video brings up a few things I was thinking: What about PvE content like The Menagerie (as just ONE example). What makes it worth playing if the gear you get from it won't be viable? Is Bungie planning on retiring that too? If yes, why not say so?

While destiny is a loot based game and loot is life, if you have to retire our weapons and gear making not viable in the end game and then you take those same weapons and gear and reintroduce it in future content just to get people to play your content, then the issue isn’t your rewards, it’s the fact that your content is uninspired and flat out boring. Credit to Jokers video

The thing is if they had implemented sun setting post Forsaken like TTK it wouldn't have been as bad, irritating but not as bad. Unfortunately they waited over two year after random rolls were reintroduced and people spent that time building up their gear. Bungie said this would solve power creep in which it won't, a tweet from Andrew Hopps said "You know how Recluse shits on everything in PvE? Weapon sunsetting means we can add more weapons that shit on everything and they just eventually fall behind in power. New weapons that shit on everything can be added without constant power creep." so hypothetically they add a Recluse level weapon for that year, that means the meta load out for pve/pvp will revolve around said weapons for that entire year and defeats their argument towards "power creep". Me personally, I like seasonal sandbox changes to keep things fresh instead ever level cap and sun setting is not only lazy but a easy way out. Power creep progress at a slow pace, it doesn't happen over night and as long as they stop introducing more damage dealing perks and control what they buff there will be no problem. All Bungie need to do is show certain archetypes some love and to come up with different perks like demolitionist, lead from gold, overflow, or more area of effect perks uniquely like meganeura etc. They're only assuming we want more damage dealing perks and a lower time to kill and believe me if Bungie can create perks in which I stated, a defense of lack of innovation is invalid. Hell they could introduce akimbo (duel wielding) smg's and sidearms with the caveat being you can't aim down sight and shared ammo reserves to balance them, same can be said with swords. I hate to bring this up but how do you think Warframe a free to play game, was said to fail just like Destiny was able to survive all this time and stay relevant with little to no controversy and backlash. It's because the devs of Warframe care about its community and doesn't half-ass their content or make excuses, example: they had a loot box system but took it out because they didn't what their player base slot machine gambling and that's what builds trust and loyalty with their brand.

In all honesty, while I agree to point that sunsetting stuff we’ve worked towards doesn’t “respect our time” (as someone influential at Bungie once said) we just can’t keep power creeping. IE, making weapons equal to pinnacle or nerfing pinnacle weapons so they’re not the only choice in activities. So I’m not sure what else they could do. I think the community is justifiably worried though. They sunset ALL D1 weapons with D2 and what came next was just awful and took years to fix. Including, but not limited to, the “Go Fast” update. Then Forsaken. Then Armor 2.0. We’re what, around 3 years in and D2 is FINALLY getting about 2/3’s where D1 ended? While some info we’ve received is interesting, still no mention of new classes or abilities. Which are usually just nerfs, buffs, and tweaks to old ones anyway. No idea what new gear will be worth chasing. I’m FINALLY masterworking Armor and just heard that was pointless. Yeah, I’m a bit peeved but all in all, it’s a game. I’ll just stop playing if I don’t like what happens. Maybe I’ll get one of those “Life’s” everyone keeps talking about. All n all it’s a mixed bag. But here we are: Still on the forums and still playing. So I guess time will tell. 🤷‍♂️

What Bungie seems to be ignoring for the sake of pushing their bullshit agenda is that people WANT equally as good weapons to grind for, that is, if they were capable of releasing weapons just as good as the current "meta". But that's not the case here. The REASON they want to sunset our current weapons is BECAUSE they're unable to match them. Otherwise, if they could match them, we'd grind for those weapons to have some variety. Nah, their excuse is garbage, and the entire reason they're doing this is so they can be lazy and not spend time and money on developing new and exciting perks and weapons. It's so they can release lesser weapons to the masses and we'll have no recourse.

Joker is -blam!-1ng annoying and cringy

Some people are overreacting to sunsetting but at the same time a lot of people felt like that was a relic of the past. Bungie keeps making the same mistakes over and over again without ever learning from them and the fact that this is the 4th time gear retirement has been a thing is enough proof of that. They have a lot of potential to tweak the sandbox now and make the game feel fresh without having to design all new weapons for people to chase. For example the pinnacle scout rifle that came from the vanguard has never once shined but on paper it’s a monster. With this new system being put in place even if they do go back and adjust this archetype it will never have its day in the sun. A lot of players are tired of the same old thing I get it but the game has several archetypes in it that just don’t get used due to One archetype being the best in all situations. So that limits the guns we end up using as players by quite a bit. For example out of all the new seraph weapons released this season why is the shotgun the only weapon worth getting? It’s a monster in both pve and pvp because the archetype is in a good place and it can roll with some pretty decent perk combinations. I personally love how it feels to shoots and how snappy it is with QuickDraw snapshot making it an instant aim down sights when drawing it..... people just don’t expect it to be honest. But looking at the other seraph weapons really only the machine gun is worth chasing. The auto rifle isn’t in a good archetype, the sidearm doesn’t come with a lot of perks that make sidearms good, the handcannon is a 180 which is the worst Handcannon archetype in the game and while it can come with multi kill clip that’s just about the only perk worth getting on this gun especially considering the archetype. You could make an argument that ambitious assassin paired with multi kill clip is the best roll on this gun but at the same time a 180 Handcannon is basically a sawed off scout rifle with sidearm range so it’s outclassed by the other things in its range. Now most people would look at what I’m pointing out and say yes this is why we need gear retirement but they forget that without addressing the issues these guns have it will still be the same with all new weapons coming forward. Saying these weapons need to be stronger has nothing to do with power creep and everything to do with making them easier to use or better in certain situations. The sandbox would drastically change if they addressed these issues and they wouldn’t have to go through and make all new models and all new perks. There are things you could do to adjust different archetypes without making the “power” of the weapon come forward and it being the only choice. For example if the made 140 Handcannons a two Headshot one Body it wouldn’t bring down the Ttk but it would make it more forgiving instead of having to compete with 150 rpm Handcannons in a Ttk battle. The 140’s would still shoot slower than a 150 but it would make them desirable because they are forgiving. This also still ensures that a 150 still maintains a better TTk but you have to land your headshots in a duel. So skill still comes in to play. That is just one archetype being adjusted and it opens up a whole lot of new options for people not just 150 Handcannons because they have the fastest TTk. Changes like this would open the game up a lot more without Bungie having to waste a bunch of time and energy on weapons people still aren’t going to use...... also last thing I’m perfectly ok with them just straight up upgrading pinnacles into exotic weapons..... they have unique perks that can be tuned directly without effecting the entire weapon category making it easier to balance. This change alone I think would be a great middle ground for people for and against gear retirement. If they do push forward gear retirement this would ensure that the players who grinded for these weapons would have their time respected and it would shift the meta considering nobody likes using exotics for add clear apparently even though there are plenty of legendary options for boss damage. As for rituals I don’t believe they belong in the same category as pinnacles and should be kept as legendary weapons.

[b]If I Had A Dollar For Every Post That Said Some Streamer Knows Better Than Anyone[/b]

I’m sure you’ve heard the expression ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion.’ Perhaps you’ve even said it yourself, maybe to head off an argument or bring one to a close.You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for. The problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse. You can’t really argue about the first kind of opinion. I’d be silly to insist that you’re wrong to think strawberry ice cream is better than chocolate. The problem is that sometimes we implicitly seem to take opinions of the second and even the third sort to be unarguable in the way questions of taste are. Perhaps that’s one reason (no doubt there are others) why enthusiastic amateurs think they’re entitled to disagree with climate scientists and immunologists and have their views “respected.” So what does it mean to be “entitled” to an opinion? If “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven. But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’ then it’s pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

Lord Dexter MAD you make some valid points and i agree that eververse should be removed from this game. But Whether we wanted it or not, we’ve stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let’s get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta’aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defences, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold.

Lord Luke has spoken. It is set in stone. People who don't respect his glorious vision, don't know how to enjoy video games.

This whole sun-setting thing is just a cheap way of prolonging the life of the game in it’s current form. Nothing to do with that never-seen phantom of power creep at all. My character’s light is well over 1000 but I have and use gear way below this level and in the capped activities, say TIII Reckoning at 750, makes absolutely no noticeable difference. So where’s the power creep? It is the content that’s ‘hard to do’ folks, no talk of interesting story-lines, new activities like new-format missions that might involve something a bit more interesting than the usual over-powered enemies until you level up or some stupid impenetrable barrier that you need a mod on your gun to break. It’s a pure and simple cash squeeze - adjust the service to just below the bare minimum and charge as much as you can get away with, bye-bye creativity.

I concur with most of that, my issue is that... retiring old gear does not help balance anything, it's just throwing out my old gear because it's old. Now, I like my old weapons. Some of these things I spent a lot of time working on. Pinnacles and curated weapons should not be sunsetted, but some of the old weapons that are still in the loot pool, but just aren't very good should be removed, sure. Bungie: the solution is not to get rid of the old meta-definers. The solution is to give them the grenade launcher treatment, by making the less popular weapons more powerful and easier to use. You can find balance. You can get rid of/reintroduce/make new weapons all day every day until the end of time and you won't find balance, if you don't correct the disparity in weapons and archetypes. The only thing you will achieve by "sunsetting" all the old gear is pissing off your older player base.

I think what “says it best” is the fact that I’ve read the same opinion dozens of times already. Gear retirement should be fine IF Bungie could be trusted to replace the gear with new and equally compelling loot. NO ONE trusts them to be able to do this based on past experience and so players are justifiably nervous about this plan.