The YouTube crowd won’t get rid of SBMM. Before Shadowkeep, the PvP numbers were insanely low. Even though there is literally nothing to do in PvP anymore, the numbers are still 3x as high. My guess is SBMM does have something to do with more people playing Crucible now days. I don’t think eliminating it is an option. It might need to be tweaked, but some form of SBMM is probably here to stay. Streamers and youtubers want it eliminated because they want you to watch them play and give them money instead of playing the game for yourself and enjoying it. Streamers and youtubers are the worst representation of gaming I think I’ve ever seen.

It is working fine. The reasons the Youtubers are rumbling is because it is working and they don't like the fact they are being paired with people around their skill level.

It appears all the 'dedicated pvp players' who claim to be highly skilled, yet have to 'sweat' against people of their own skill level, have once again, predictably downvoted a pro-SBMM thread. Even though their arguments against SBMM amount to one or more of the following: - It's not SBMM they actually have an issue with, it's having to fight against sweaty opponents - It's not SBMM they actually have an issue with, it's having to fight against sweaty opponents wielding the meta - It's not SBMM they actually have an issue with, it's having to fight against sweaty opponents wielding the meta in a 3, 4, 5, 6 stack of k/d farmers like they work for Kraft - It's not SBMM they actually have an issue with, it's having to fight against sweaty opponents wielding the meta in a 3, 4, 5, 6 stack of k/d farmers like they work for Kraft and who are 'lagging' (read: lag switching) like latency was going out of style, due to a lack of regional dedicated servers only network model - they just want to pubstomp newbies and solo, rando potatoberries Note that not one of these arguments actually involve SBMM in any way whatsoever, and in fact, are issues that happened constantly, and in many cases in much worse ways, under CBMM where one would regularly run into 6-stacks of Luna's/NF/Recluse spammers against whom you always seem to constantly lag around (although strangely, you never lag in the match when they don't see you on radar or on their screen, almost like they can only hit the lag switch when they know there's an enemy around: selective 'lag' as it were)… and if you miraculously managed to kill some of them despite their obvious network manipulation, suddenly, you're attacked by a ridiculous menagerie of weasels, baboons, all eating kale, and you're suddenly disconnected from the match and end up back in orbit or at the title screen. Perhaps your home internet suddenly stops working, 'mysteriously' and 'coincidentally' (i.e. coinciding when you just danced on the Ghost of the two top players on the opposing 6-stack team, almost as if there was a correlation-- nay, a _causation_ between these seemingly 'random' events. Most of all, these things never happen in the matches where you feel the fight was fair, that people better than you on the opposing team outplayed you, or you did your best and you were top scorer on your team, but your team couldn't keep up _due to not taking Zones and playing objective_ ;P... but it was still fun and you got to test your mettle on the battlefield against an opponent you would be happy to salute, saying in a British accent, 'well played, old chapeau. Well played!' Again, none of this has to do with SBMM, since it certainly happened all the time under CBMM, and in fact, still does. So when people talk about how their matches are now suddenly 'sweaty' because of SBMM, I would argue that this is not actually the case, and that what is actually happening is them being now more likely to run into a combination of cheaters, sweaty tryhards who so cannot stomach a loss that they'll resort to a federal cyber crime (DDoSing) in order to win. They can't even stand it if you dance on their Ghost, they get so salty they'll happily knock you offline with a DDoS-for-hire site. But certainly a little lag switching isn't going to be noticed by Bungie security, right? It's not like Bungie can tell if a player disconnected themselves from a match, or were knocked offline by a DDoS attack from an opposing player who is so immature that they can't handle a loss, lol. Again, all of this happens in CBMM as well, only in CBMM it's more evenly distributed to all skill levels of the game, so the pubstomping is actually worse. I have a lot of footage of stacks who are both pubstomping _and_ cheating, but it's not like I will ever have the time or upload bandwidth to be uploading all that to online video hosting sites just to 'prove' to Bungie that someone or a group of people are cheating, am I. After all, it's not like anything happens to them, unless a streamer complains because they got DDoSed. People who statpad their k/d ratios, the ones who only ever run around in stacks with their fireteams, going into CBMM and just obliterating an opposing team of newbie, rando potatoberries with no mics. And if they die even once, they get so angry they have to drophack you out of the match, because you're too much of a threat to them to have you remain in the match, because of how quickly Iron Banner can turn with just one good player, mowing them down with Sweet Business and Actium War Rig. ;P That's what those anti-SBMM people are really complaining about: that they actually have to run into constant cheaters and cheesers, while the rest of us are not. So the better you are, the more likely you are to be matched with statpadders and cheaters and cheesers, since as far as the game is concerned, it can't tell the difference between someone who is actually skilled, and someone who cheated their way to Glory, since they're functionally the same, although I'm sure network analysis of the matches would yield suspicious lag spikes for certain players just before they either get killed or get disconnected, and it disproportionately happens to the best player on a team, almost like they were targeted specifically, the way an enforcer might be sent to put the hurt on some star player on the opposing team, take them out of the match entirely if possible. But that's none of my business. *sips tea* /Earl Grey. Decaf. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-strange-science-of-destiny-2s-uniquely-complicated-netcode/ https://threatpost.com/fbi-ddos-for-hire/140280/ https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/355113-bungies-response-destiny-2s-ddos-attacks-angered-community https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/13/why-the-game-industry-is-still-vulnerable-to-distributed-denial-of-service-attacks/ https://beta.support.xbox.com/help/Hardware-Network/connect-network/dos-attacks-faq To be honest, I don't think Microsoft should even allow peer-to-peer games to be on their platform, because I'm sure they get a lot of flak from customers who've been DoSed and DDoSed because they were playing a peer-to-peer game on XBL.

SBMM wouldn’t be as much of an issue for those people if we had dedicated servers and a better matching system in general. But if you’re a good player complaining about SKILL based match making, I wonder how good you actually are. The likely answer is that you’re just a KD farmer and are upset that bungie put you with the big kids now.

Sbmm is the best thing to hit the crucible in a long time from my humble opinion. I don't understand all those that are complaining for playing against players of their own level. Bad players vs bad players, the game will be close and sweaty at times, for their skill level. Average players vs average players, same as above. Good players vs good players, same. Highly skilled vs highly skilled, ditto. I just think that some are missing those long stomping sessions they were used to, but this kept all the other skill levels out of the crucible apart from the time it took them to get their weekly engram from shaxx, as the fun was a 1 sided thing only. My 2 cents.

So you wanted free handouts for not being good and you got em. Good for you.

The reason you like it is because the negative effects don’t hit low skill players. The dedicated pvp audience is being pushed aside for low skill players to have a “chill” pvp experience while high skill players have to sweat it out every single game. We get no “chill” pvp experience. I want to use other weapons, but when I’m constantly being matched against unbroken sweat lords it’s almost impossible. You have a false sense of sbmm bc you only see and experience the good. You get into matches quickly full of people who can’t shoot just like you and you get to have fun. Now let me tell you what happens to me and the dedicated good pvp players that this system screws. First off it takes 15 minutes to even find people to put in our games from all across the globe, you’ll have players from 3 different countries in your lobby and the lag will be insane. Or it just doesent find players for you and your game starts half full and yea that’s super fun. Then you have to play for the D2 world championship every game, every time. You get zero chill matches to try new things. I like having sbmm, but the reason why the higher skill players don’t like it is bc it’s not working properly and the only place to go for a chill experience is classic mix and now that’s sweatier than comp. It’s very easy to say all is well with sbmm when you never feel the bad side of the system.

Same here. Majority of players (average below average) enjoy the game more because of SBMM. Those that oppose it do so for entirely selfish reasons. The top players who are against SBMM want easier games and when forced to play players at their level over and over again they get burnt out. The Streamers try to get their sheep to advocate for the removal of SBMM. Unfortunately the main issue with PVP isn’t the matchmaking it’s the P2P which produces inconsistent gameplay.

Me too.... I actually feel like I'm on a even playing ground. It's no fun getting pubstomped

KD farmers and YouTubers are the ones crying about SBMM. Screw them both.

SBMM is a good thing.. Players that dont like it...just want to pubstomp the lower skilled. They kept touting.."playing better players make u better." and those players need to "git gud". My question always is..."how does SBMM seem to only effect one group and not the other" ? It makes no sense other than to pubstomp lower tiered players. I tried playing Overwatch the other day and they have a big problem with Smurf accounts ruining the fun for others that just want to play for entertainment.

Lazy people hate SBMM

I'm confused by this a little, you claim to have being trounced prior in quick play but now that you believe sbmm is involved, you've got better? Except dmg even responded to Gigz via twitter [quote]This playlist was created specifically to host CBMM with the launch of Shadowkeep, and no SBMM has been intentionally introduced since.[/quote] So either you're mistaken as it clearly states its CBMM on quick play /classic description. Or you're just actually getting better due to playing better opponents and having to alter your game style. Now IB uses Sbmm, so can you say you're getting continually trounced on that or not?

Your post is the most bs thing posted here, you are playing only ironbanner, and for the record ironbanner always had sbmm in place. So there is nothing that’s change for you. It’s called placebo affect. So first dig deep into you’re argument before posting this dumb stuff

a positive thread in this salt mine !! well done OP