I agree with you completely. We used to run raids weekly in D1. There is still the issue with the revive tokens. D1 had it right with infinite revives but with revive countdown timers. D2 makes is so you pretty much have to go flawless every time, even in normal mode. Starting with D2 the raids took a serious downturn. Was this a Vicarious Visions thing or a Bungie thing? The raids became ALL ABOUT THE MECHANICS. In D1 you could carry a few noobs by just giving them some simple instructions. In D2 you can not carry more than 1 who has no clue. It became required to study the "Raiding for Idiots" videos before attempting them. The raids became - how far can we go to try to make it as hard as possible for guardians to figure out how to run this raid......instead of - how can we make this raid the most fun for all who attempt it. I'm at the point now (after watching Crown of Sorrow videos) where I don't even want to bother with the damned things. There's no great loot at the end. There's no armor that's going to assist the run. If I screw up even once, I doom my fireteam to failure. Too much work for too little payoff.

The D1 raids were much more accessible to more people. They were not easier, just much less co-ordination heavy. The D2 raids just really seem like they were designed for career YouTubers and Twitch Streamers who do nothing but play D2 all day. And a major difference between D1 and D2 is that D2 lost SO many people who played D1. Finding a regular group of people to raid with is not easy and when you lose them, it is really hard to get that back.

Borderlands 2 DLC just dropped, just 1 DLC is better than this entire trash heap of a game.

Remove raid token and the raids are the same. I'm tired of people wanting raids to be easy. Go play strikes or the shattered throne if you want to be barely challenged. The only reason vault of glass was easy is because it was their first raid

I think you are hitting on a fact that cant be disputed. D2 made it harder to raid and sherpa. Without an easy mode and with all these wipe mechanics and puzzle encounters it is much more frustrating to pull in more casual player or friends. I used to raid every raid every week in D1. Now i ahve no desire to redo raids with new people. To rehash complicated mechanics over and over. VOG was my gold standard. But Wrath was a great middle ground and i think the right way to go. Stop trying to make Gladd and Datto happy. The more people raiding the better.

[quote]Hi All, So I've played D2 since launch, first on Xbox and now on PC, I played D1 from launch on Xbox and PS4. I used to raid in D1. From the get go I tried to play the D2 raids and at one point (at the very beginning) it was great, I had a 6 man team of friends that I'd known from high school and I could easily talk and communicate with them and generally have a good time. Through the first year of D2 they all dropped off except 1 would came with me to PC but he barely plays now anyway. The raids of D2 are just such of a chore for someone in my situation, I thought the Kings Fall raid was mechanic heavy and that was the top bar for how much I could deal with but honestly D2 raids are stupid, no room for error and just boring to play. If I really wanted to kill adds I'd just do some strikes, I can remember my first runs on VoG and how good it was, simple mechanics and you DPS the boss, even kings falls last enounter was alright, get the shield, kill the ogres, kill the knights, detonate the bombs then dps, I could deal with that. Now I wont even attempt to learn the raids, way too stressful and annoying on your own, especially with the lack of easy team talk or party system on pc, you still have to set up a discord to raid in which can take time. Anyway rant over, does anyone else feel the same? TL;DR D2 raids are too mechanic heavy and make me sad. D1 raids were better and simpler to understand and could be done by 99% of people[/quote] What I loved in D1 Raids is that you're not dependant on revive tokens and the timers that come with it. It robs you of those epic clutch "who's the man who saved the day" moments. When you're suddenly the only one left, you jump to evade while reloading your Gjallarhorn(y), turn around and shoot the boss and he goes down. Now in D2 you're just screwed when the timer hits 0, and those epic clutch moments are gone. Plus I just don't have that WOOOOW feeling on armor or weapons, because they're not special anymore. Yeah the LW handcannon is great on curated, my Fatebringer feelings start tingling again, but where fatebringer actually was viable to use in VOG because of the bonus "anti vex" or extra oracle damage, and these weapons just don't have it. Plus leviathan feels more like a gameshow than a Raid.

I remember clutching in so many d1 raids or having someone else make that last second save. That just isn't possible in d2 and that makes me not enjoy raiding nearly as much

I'll tell you when it went south for me. When I was in a group and they were all saying different things to do in the Bath area of the first raid. And then the dogs.... the stupid, stupid dogs... I realized at that point that there was nothing fun about it for me. It wasn't fun. It was just stress and silly mechanics.

They're so focused on worlds first that they forget about adding the "Fun" aspects of the raid. they always build them so that they are not easily beatable by the people that steam roll every pve activity like gladd or something. Sooo as a result the raids become impossible for the rest of us.

I personally find the idea of revive tokens on a Normal raid to be stupid, It would be one thing for like a Hard/Prestige raid mode. Normal was the mode to learn/teach first timers how to do the mechanics without the worry of revives, and had the opportunities for mess up’s. I enjoyed LW, It was the kind of raid I expect from Bungie, but revive mechanic is just a vain attempt to make it feel “longer”.

Blame streamers, their opinion is heavier than the majority. They asked for this. They got it. Just look at whenever Bungie summons “players”, the list is 99% streamers.

There is no recovery agency. You could heroically 4 man a finish. Now if 1 guy dies its a wipe.

No that’s the misconception you let yourself believe. The reason they’re not as fun anymore is because it was always less about the activities and more about who you played them with. Now your buddies are gone your interest is less peaked.