Ever since D2 came out I have questioned the point of this expansion. Let's be honest here, D2 is not a full game, it's an over blown expansion of D1, that removed a good chunk of progress in terms of quality of life due to poor planning in regards to how and when this game was developed.
I am an app developer. Not a game developer, but one of the core ideas in development is usability. Making things function as intended, but also useful to the end user. Whether it is a shopping cart or a survey. Getting the user from point A to point B in the most efficient and useful way possible is always at the forefront of the development process. Are compromises necessary? Of course. But the user experience always has to come first.
Destiny has never been great at this, but at least in D1 there was some tangible improvements year after year.
D2? Far too many systems that simply do not feel as if they mesh. Be it the clunky inventory system or the repetitive activity structure. Most things in D2 "work", but they do not work well together.
Consider your character. You have a level. A power level. Then 3 core attributes(mobility, resilience, recovery). Which seemingly operate independently of one another. What does level 50 do for your overall power? Nothing. It's an arbitrary marker and a means of gaining access to early game activities and loot. Attributes? At max level, power and character, can you really feel the difference in general game play between 5 resilience and 9? I don't. Getting sniped in the Bergusia forge feels pretty much EXACTLY the same between setups, with my subclass skill tree seeming to make more(if ever so slight) of a difference.
Is Kill Clip THAT much more powerful than Rampage? Are .2 second TTK increments really the determining factor in gunfights? No. I being a shitty crucible player can seemingly take forever to kill someone with the exact same gun that always seems to 2 shot me when used by someone more skilled. So why bother? What will having top tier gear do for me, or players like me?
Nothing. Why? Because none of these systems seem to work in conjunction. So the incremental differences ultimately don't make any real difference other than on paper. Which brings me to the title of this post. Everything, and I mean everything just feels tedious.
You need gloves to hit max power? Welp, grind out your milestones and hope RNG doesn't give you weapons. You want to complete that crucible quest? Welp hope you get good teams, seeing as most quests are prohibitive when it comes to progress vs time spent. How does being 70% of the way towards Last Word feel, only to get three full stack ass whoopins in a row. Now you are back at zero progress...
Why? You want a fast reload? Here, let us gimp your range, or stability, or magazine. Again, why?
Grind, sure. But why? What is the point? Do these things ultimately make enough of a difference to be worth it? No, IMO, not really. And I think that is why a lot of players, average players, keep playing.
I have a group of friends who don't really pay attention to the minutia of D2. They use what they like and muddle through. They don't care about TTK, or which perk is better. They just play. And what they end up doing is playing the same 3 things week after week, chasing the arbitrary power cap, just to get there. They haven't even touched the forges. Are just unlocking their subclasses, and only play PvP for the milestone.
How is that a good thing? And why do they play that way?
Because there is no clear reason for them to play any other way. Why worry about stats when they aren't going to see any noticeable difference. Why run a 20 minute strike when all they are going to get is the same useless loot they get from doing a public event? Why spend 20 minutes when you can achieve the exact same results in 5?
Two new locations came with Forsaken. How many materials do you have from each? Yet week after week, "collect 25 of this" or "go into X lost sector". It's a waste. And it is, as I have stated in the past, poor design.
Bloated, poorly implemented design.
The fix? Make things meaningful. Period. Everything in the game should have a purpose. A means to obtain it, and use. EVERYTHING. From strikes and adventures, to your vault and the destination vendors. All of it should be meaningful. Not tossed in, only to be rendered useless or obsolete with every update.
The shooting is fun. That's it. That is why I still play. It's fun to shoot. Otherwise this game is terrible. remove the shooting mechanics and no one would be playing. Grinding out milestones week after week. dealing with the worst PvP system in the industry. No one.
Destiny used to be a hobby. Now it is a diversion. something I do to pass some time. But I don't care about level, or what I can and can't collect. Gone are the days where I hunted for things. Ironic, that we have a collection that I use for little more than a cheaper and more reliable means to gear.
Destiny 2 still sucks. And I don't really see that changing. But I also see the wasted potential, and still LOVE the shooting. So I still play. For now.
Cheers.
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Bearbeitet von ShaDoW The Game Director: 2/13/2019 2:02:39 PM
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love how fast this got up voted. Nice write up. It explains everything wrong about the game. I stopped playing. final nail in the coffin for me is RNG being too aggressive and for what? I am going to get an Osprey rocket launcher that I am never going to use. What am I doing lol. My entire team has the 1000 voices but me. Im not interested in grinding out the raid which is super difficult minus the cheese to get another weapon that Im never going to use. I hear its great in Gambit but Ive already unlocked anything and everything to do with gambit. By the time jokers wild comes out, Im sure it will get nerfed.
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7 AntwortenI log on...and log back off. I cant bring myself to play the repetitive crap that fanboys defend vehemently. None of the majority of the friends i have returned to this game. D2 lost all excitement. All aspects of the game are tailored to what Bungie's precious youtubers have to say. The average players have no say in it. If Datto or some twat like that has an issue with a part of the game...it is tweaked. If they want something added...it gets added. This game isn't the game I want to come home and relax to. Hell, Tales of Vesperia has more replayability than D2.
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-blam!-ing hell china called they want their freaking wall's back.
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Very nicely said and I agree 100%. Like you only play once in a while just because of the game play mechanics. Probably the thing I hate the most is the RNG. The other day I made a video of my experience cashing in crucible tokens (I almost never bother doing that, which highlights another problem) and 6 of the 11 packages gave me Truth Hurts. To get the same thing 6 out of 11 times is just frustratingly stupid. A very similar thing happened to me last Iron Banner, completed 6 bounties for high powered gear, and 3 of the 6 were Titan Marks the other 3 all hit items that were my highest power gear so they did me no good at all. This type of crap happens to me far too often.
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Bearbeitet von Brobot: 2/13/2019 12:30:59 PMHi mate, I respect your opinion, I would say, more manifestation of the depths of the soul than just a simple opinion :) But I can't refrain from commenting either. I think your opinion is somewhat inadequate to reality. You deviate too much from simple things. All of your manifesto comes into practice from what you like or dislike. You are talking about the fact that you are kinda supported by the rest of the community opinion. Although this is not the case. You also deviate to nostalgia by remembering Destiny 1. And for this reason, I can't judge your opinion seriously, because it's just another pleasure to dislike the public speaking, desperate to draw attention to issues that are really not that big of a deal then you really enjoy the game. Maybe this is just not your type of a game, and thats it. In my personal opinion, Bungie is receiving absolutely undesirable criticism of what they are doing. You need to look somewhat deeper than just Rampage, or Kill Clip, or En. cores. They have really created a wonderful computer game. You may not like it, but have to admit that there are a lot of people who just play it and enjoy the game rather than the those little things. Again for me - I love this game. The biggest problem finders here, are PVP players who value the game only to their narrow seamless PVP traditions. This game is much more than that. [i]Regards[/i] And sorry for my English
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well said. thank you. If bungie thinks the boring, monotonous, useless grind to open forges is more fun than trials you need to be teleported to the psychiatrists office and get your head screwed on straight. And don't forget to teleport to Ada 1 a half dozen times first just to waste your time. GIVE US TRIALS BACK. That was the only thing worth grinding in this game over and over. You can by the way unlock a stupid game triumph but only after you make 5,000 senseless trips to Ada 1 for no reason at all. BRING BACK TRIALS. You ruin everything you touch.
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Awesome reaSon.
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Have an upvote. Well said.
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1 AntwortenLuke Smith and Mark Noseworthy have gone dark for awhile and it’s either for different projects or maybe, just maybe, D3. They’re basking in Bungie’s independence which means.....what? I totally agree that you can look at a game from community to completion but they also have to keep a tight reign on the core game. Right now it screams of too many chefs in the kitchen and/or “let’s just blow it up again and reboot” as a signal that going forward it’s fresh. Again. I played since day 1 but haven’t played for oh 4 months because I feel tired looking at the grind list just past my loading screen for the same weaponry I had years ago. But got blew up. And came back somehow. I mean how often do you have people buy a season pass and then not use it? I paid for it and am now throwing that money away. I hate it but shame on me. Bungie is on their own but they are a small fish in a big highly competitive pond. I think they may have the financing for one more title then that’s it, it’s either make or break time. As for them “going silent” - move industries. This is a customer facing industry and needs transparent leadership because the community will push back and demand/desire more. That’s not necessarily a bad thing when handled properly. Now I’ll go watch a condescending Luke/Mark video and watch my skin crawl.
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Bearbeitet von The Fool: 2/12/2019 9:14:16 PMWhile I largely agree on what you stated and share the frustrations on some points like the crucible grinding (even though I enjoy playing the crucible and am not too shabby at it), let's also not forget that we all have a choice regarding how we spend our time. We can choose to spend our time playing a game that frustrates us instead of playing one we thoroughly enjoy through and through. We also have a choice whether to grind weapons that don't really make a difference to our gameplay experience outside of the game modes which we have to grind to obtain them. It is all about people's mindsets. If there is so much wrong with the game, why play it? Why not take a break or quit altogether? In the end, losing revenue is the only way these days any company will listen to any complaints made by their customers. Posting this surely makes some people aware, but won't make any difference in terms of bungie's business ethics or practices. Sadly these days companies only care for exploiting their customers rather than supplying value for money. Another fact is that largely what makes the game dull, is the very player base. These days it is hard to find even just a single person who knows how toplay while at the same time sees the game as a game and not as a job. Just look at the fireteam section of the app. If you want to do raids, you have to have 30+ clears, even of any content that just got released a day ago, and you have to use either whisper, sleeper or bad omens with clusters AND tou must know how to glitch and cheat your way past any boss (since that's the only way people know how to play apparently) or you will be kicked the moment they check some dodgy 3rd party website to view your 'raid report' (since that of course reflects whether or not you're a good player or fun to be around with). And when you end up in voice parties for which ever activity, it's either dead silent or people should military style instructions into the mic. [edit] And the reverse is true too of course. There are too many people who don't want to play and expect everything to be handed to them, which in turn feeds the elitists as much as their own evos.
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11 AntwortenBearbeitet von SwankyButters: 2/13/2019 1:04:53 AMYou are in the ball park of right. Everyone is different and THAT is what they don't take into account. I don't want to do everything you want to do and you don't want to do everything I want to do and we shouldn't have to. That's where they go off the rails. It's not just the grind, which can be annoying in and of itself it's WHERE you have to grind. Seriously, optional matchmaking for everything, different ways to get the gear you want and make the worlds interactions feel real and alive, some mystery and you watch this game turn around. I hear they are going to make D3 harder and more of a grind. This is not the cure, it's the disease.
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Kill clip and rampage example was bad, is just preference.
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I didn’t read the whole thing, but... [spoiler]you are hired![/spoiler]
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4 AntwortenI never ever felt like D1 was tedious. Where’d they go wrong?
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Today that word tedious came up a lot, along with many expletives. This came up running my second character through the first forge on Nessus. I really love this game but certain activities really need some tlc, brings to mind account based quests, better matchmaking options, etc. If unfun was a word, it should never be ascociated with gaming.
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Ugh, I downloaded the game yesterday because my buddy wanted some Crimson crap and he needed one more. It felt so damn wrong and easy. We did a nightfall, boring. We played a heroic story, boring. I then decided to stop playing lol. And you know what was so obvious. The first yellow bar enemy he killed dropped me a prime engram... hmmm, the game’s drawing me back with loot.
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The thing that kept me coming back to D1 was the fact that I knew I could get something if I worked hard enough for it for instance let's just say vex or gjallarhorn the amount of times I ran a VoG just to get those weapons was insane, I had one character but I could bet I was on it at every reset working towards my Vex or gjallarhorn yeah I knew that I had a chance to get them but i definitely wouldn't get them by moping around not doing raids.... I find it 100% more rewarding to work for something.. same concept with the Thorn I worked super hard to get that just cause I wanted it as a collector's piece but I used it after I got it cause I felt rewarded. Unfortunately those days are gone if I get an exotic I dismantle it, they aren't exactly what they used to be....and obtaining them is just ridiculous I may as well get to pick what I start with cause we sure don't earn our exotics anymore
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14 AntwortenI kinda hate it when I get flack for saying that I prefer the D1 grind to the D2 grind. People are always saying “D1 grinding was too easy,” but really, that’s not it at all. Unlike D2, the grind in D1 was just... fair. It wasn’t like D2 Y1 where Exotics were dropping out of every 5 Dregs you killed. It wasn’t like the utter BS we have now with these cosmetics. There was something about the RNG system from D1 that seemed to almost respect the player investment and you’d know that you would eventually get what you wanted so long as you put in a bit of effort. It wasn’t too easy or too hard, it was just right. A good level of RNG for both the filthy causal and the no lifer. Even the quests were better in D1. They were challenging and quite hard to do at times, but they weren’t a hassle (except for the material grinding for the Exotic Swords and Sleeper Simulant’s Mars Warsat for some). Nor were they ridiculously simple like the recent Last Word Quest.
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pve alternative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuHL8JQasXg
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6 AntwortenHow about people just play more games? Every game gets slow and boring, play something else then come back and it feels good again.
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Bearbeitet von SwankyButters: 2/13/2019 8:57:17 AMThis is another post that most might not agree with but for me, the only way to save this game, is to give it back to the people who created it in the first place. Bring back the team that was so disgusted with the direction B&A were taking it that they either quit or were fired. Top of that list is Joe Staten and Marty O'Donnell. I'm sure there are others I don't know about but these two need to be outright given the game back and let them do what they intended. Let them fix this mess. https://youtu.be/ZiDbv7nftM8?t=180
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3 AntwortenI jump on here and there, but now it’s RE2, AC Odyssey, RDR2, Apex Legends and I’m getting Anthem and Division 2. I just move on and come back occasionally.
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1 AntwortenGreat post! Just before I hopped on the forums, I fired up D1 for the first time in months maybe longer. The first thing I thought is why didn't the game build on this and improve. I used to have fun collecting and grinding for things in D1, but I can honestly say I haven't done that since. When I play D2, I just play what I think is fun regardless of my progression and power level. Oh well...I have made a lot of great memories along the way and met some pretty nice people.
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I just play the game to enjoy it. I don’t give a flying -blam!- about my power level. Why? Because it doesn’t matter in PvP. I chase perks that improve my setups and play styles. For example better target acquisition on snipers or a faster reload speed. I have mods set up up on each build whether it’s to get my melee back faster or my class ability. I’ve completed 1 forge so far but I don’t enjoy PvE as much as PvP so I don’t touch it that often. Why spend time playing something I find boring? There are a couple weapons that you have to chase that are PvE exclusive but I’ve never found it necessarily tedious.
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2 AntwortenI agree. The problem is they don't care as long as people are playing and buying silver.