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Bearbeitet von ThisWickedEarth:
2/12/2019 2:13:31 PM
274
Destiny is needlessly tedious.
Ever since D2 came out I have questioned the point of this expansion. Let's be honest here, D2 is not a full game, it's an over blown expansion of D1, that removed a good chunk of progress in terms of quality of life due to poor planning in regards to how and when this game was developed.
I am an app developer. Not a game developer, but one of the core ideas in development is usability. Making things function as intended, but also useful to the end user. Whether it is a shopping cart or a survey. Getting the user from point A to point B in the most efficient and useful way possible is always at the forefront of the development process. Are compromises necessary? Of course. But the user experience always has to come first.
Destiny has never been great at this, but at least in D1 there was some tangible improvements year after year.
D2? Far too many systems that simply do not feel as if they mesh. Be it the clunky inventory system or the repetitive activity structure. Most things in D2 "work", but they do not work well together.
Consider your character. You have a level. A power level. Then 3 core attributes(mobility, resilience, recovery). Which seemingly operate independently of one another. What does level 50 do for your overall power? Nothing. It's an arbitrary marker and a means of gaining access to early game activities and loot. Attributes? At max level, power and character, can you really feel the difference in general game play between 5 resilience and 9? I don't. Getting sniped in the Bergusia forge feels pretty much EXACTLY the same between setups, with my subclass skill tree seeming to make more(if ever so slight) of a difference.
Is Kill Clip THAT much more powerful than Rampage? Are .2 second TTK increments really the determining factor in gunfights? No. I being a shitty crucible player can seemingly take forever to kill someone with the exact same gun that always seems to 2 shot me when used by someone more skilled. So why bother? What will having top tier gear do for me, or players like me?
Nothing. Why? Because none of these systems seem to work in conjunction. So the incremental differences ultimately don't make any real difference other than on paper. Which brings me to the title of this post. Everything, and I mean everything just feels tedious.
You need gloves to hit max power? Welp, grind out your milestones and hope RNG doesn't give you weapons. You want to complete that crucible quest? Welp hope you get good teams, seeing as most quests are prohibitive when it comes to progress vs time spent. How does being 70% of the way towards Last Word feel, only to get three full stack ass whoopins in a row. Now you are back at zero progress...
Why? You want a fast reload? Here, let us gimp your range, or stability, or magazine. Again, why?
Grind, sure. But why? What is the point? Do these things ultimately make enough of a difference to be worth it? No, IMO, not really. And I think that is why a lot of players, average players, keep playing.
I have a group of friends who don't really pay attention to the minutia of D2. They use what they like and muddle through. They don't care about TTK, or which perk is better. They just play. And what they end up doing is playing the same 3 things week after week, chasing the arbitrary power cap, just to get there. They haven't even touched the forges. Are just unlocking their subclasses, and only play PvP for the milestone.
How is that a good thing? And why do they play that way?
Because there is no clear reason for them to play any other way. Why worry about stats when they aren't going to see any noticeable difference. Why run a 20 minute strike when all they are going to get is the same useless loot they get from doing a public event? Why spend 20 minutes when you can achieve the exact same results in 5?
Two new locations came with Forsaken. How many materials do you have from each? Yet week after week, "collect 25 of this" or "go into X lost sector". It's a waste. And it is, as I have stated in the past, poor design.
Bloated, poorly implemented design.
The fix? Make things meaningful. Period. Everything in the game should have a purpose. A means to obtain it, and use. EVERYTHING. From strikes and adventures, to your vault and the destination vendors. All of it should be meaningful. Not tossed in, only to be rendered useless or obsolete with every update.
The shooting is fun. That's it. That is why I still play. It's fun to shoot. Otherwise this game is terrible. remove the shooting mechanics and no one would be playing. Grinding out milestones week after week. dealing with the worst PvP system in the industry. No one.
Destiny used to be a hobby. Now it is a diversion. something I do to pass some time. But I don't care about level, or what I can and can't collect. Gone are the days where I hunted for things. Ironic, that we have a collection that I use for little more than a cheaper and more reliable means to gear.
Destiny 2 still sucks. And I don't really see that changing. But I also see the wasted potential, and still LOVE the shooting. So I still play. For now.
Cheers.
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I think that you mean excessively tedious
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13 AntwortenBearbeitet von powerdrive1971: 2/17/2019 8:39:40 PMNumbers don't lie.....around 500k players yesterday including PS4,PC and Xbox...something is definetly wrong because players are dropping like flies...Apex Legends, Anthem and Divison 2 are gonna be tough competition for D2 and Season of the Drifter does not look very promising....time to up your game, Bungie
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1 AntwortenI just want things to be more streamlined. If I want to buy an X amount of items, I should be able to. If I want to turn in X amount of tokens or materials, or maybe tokens or materials for an X amount of rewards, I would like to. If I want to dismantle all blue gear in my inventory, that would be nice. Maybe some vault organization would be nice. I use DIM over the vault, simply because of a lack of filters or folders or ability to favorite items for quick finding.
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I have a feeling forsaken was outsourced since Bungie does not seem capable to maintain the game and they never have been. Forsaken dropped like bomb and all was new and fun but then the never ending loop of doing same things week after week was back again. And as everything in Destiny they create something and then just leave it to rot. Develop, Maintaining and expanding what’s already in the game doesn’t happen. For example. Dreaming City is a great world to play in but once you have completed you weekly bounties there is literally no reason to go back. If it wasn’t for me wanting that damn ghost I wouldn’t log in at all. I think that we must realize after these years that Bungie just don’t understand their own game and their community and it seems like they never will. This season pass was a complete ripoff. Black Armory wasn’t even worth a penny and should’ve been a free content update. It’s lazy. Now we are back to pre forsaken with the same events we have seen for the past 4 years over and over again with pointless rewards that look like crap. As TS stated it doesn’t matter what gear you have because the Percs doesn’t do any difference. Spending all you enhancement cores to update your gear to masterworks is just as meaningless. I’ve been playing Destiny since vanilla D1 and I have had a lot of fun for some short periods but D1 was something new and fresh. Now Bungie is lost since they never had a plan with the game. It’s a never ending Beta test and that why it will never be what the gamers want. Bungie are listening with the wrong ear!
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Bearbeitet von Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 2/17/2019 1:24:22 PMI still think they should have just kept it one game and expanded on it each year. I mean they just threw away a lot of open playable areas. I would rather have seen those areas expanded upon and it would have been nostalgic to occasionally be required to return to them. Instead they wiped everything we did and basically said do it all again but differently. I wish they would lean on the public aspect of the game and give us more to do in the patrol areas. Have both random and player triggerable activities that compare to endgame activities with comparable rewards. Not super common but when they do happen you know everyone in that instance is going to come over and help stomp the boss. Instead they create these areas and then once the season is over, that’s it. No updates to it. Nothing. It just sits there waiting for the occasional request to require completing public events that have not been changed or even increased in difficulty. I think that would make the game feel less tedious. I want it to feel more like “ok let’s play Destiny and see what happens today” than “what specifically am I doing today because the game is telling me to do it.” Opening the game up and giving players more freedom and options and avenues of completion and gear acquisition could really help the game because as it is now it is so incredibly rigid to the point that it feels like it’s practically suffocating itself.
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PC population must be at it's lowest...it takes me more than 5 mins to fill a lobby on Quickplay....I went to Titanfall 2 and got matched in less than 30 seconds, that's a clear example of how things are working for D2 right now, the game feels like a wasteland
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Bearbeitet von CatMan: 2/16/2019 5:00:24 AMYou had to go and write a whole movie. Lrgend has it...this this was just the intro.
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11 AntwortenLots of issues stand out to me in this game but power progression grates me more than most. Eg. When I was a lowly 305 I would play Exodus Crash strike, at the final room I'd stand atop before dropping down and wipe the exploder shanks, 4 shots from a scout usually did the trick then onto the boss fight. Progressed to 400, 95 power stronger, but what's this still 4 shots per shank as before, that can't be right. Well I'm 650 now and guess how many shots the shanks take with the same weapon as when I was 305, exactly the same. Power progression my arse. They scale everything and you never get more powerful than 5 above enemies you face. Should have just left us 305 and saved us time grinding for jack shit
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Bearbeitet von question man6: 2/15/2019 12:27:37 PMI really liked getting back into Destiny when I could get D2. I had to start playing during Warmind however, so I didn't experience [i]all[/i] of the horrible choices Bungie made for D2, just a good portion of the newer content. It took me all the way until mid-season 4 to realize that none of my closest friends since D1 played anymore, and I was mindlessly grinding out milestones. The only reason I stay and keep playing is for your same reason: the gunplay. It's one thing Bungie hasn't managed to run into the ground. There are a lot of solid points in this post about how the game is lacking in meaningful content, but sadly I don't think Bungie will ever read this and take action towards a more rewarding experience. If they haven't gotten the message by now, then I can't give them the benefit of the doubt and hope it'll get better. I'll just have to keep playing for the lore and gunplay that engaged me in D1.
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The ridiculous way to unlock forges is awful and it's just their way to PROLONG THE -blam!-ING GAME and extend playtime on players.But in reality what they expect and what they got are different views.They are -blam!-ing shooting themselfs in the foot and driving away players with their ridiculous grind.
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Raids are too, i brought 5 clan members to play VoG, Crota and Kingsfall, cause they never had the people to try those raids before, while fighting Atheon for example we had some KOs but they learnt to shoot oracles and to get out and where to dmg phase. Crota we struggle a bit cause they didnt certain guns that make it easier like swords and tracking rockets but we finish it. Kings fall we just explained the sisters encounter cause Oryx fight is just similar.
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9 AntwortenIts like when I said to my wife the coffee is too hot.... the next one she made me was with cold water. PPl complained in D1 that it should be more grindy...... so Bungie did the same as my wife!
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Funny how this has nearly 900 upvotes and yet no Bungie reply, yet even the most mundane of issues get almost an immediate response. Hmm. Apparently they have nothing to say when a post hits the nail on its head far too finely. Really wish they would wake up and realize this is a game, something that should be fun and rewarding, not some ridiculous platform for people to act like buffoons as they strut around with their pervasive obsession with flapping about their e-peens over digital nonsense with no real world meaning. There's more important things in life than wasting away in front of a monitor or TV just to get a digital plaything or title that isn't even going to exist when they stop supporting the servers for the game. Games should be fun, not a chore, and people trying to act otherwise as if they should get respect over wasting hundreds of hours to get one gun desperately need a reality check.
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Destiny has always had systems that were oddly cobbled together. To me, it feels like there is a constant battle going on for which way Bungie wants to take the game. D1 launched with MMO-lite currency systems that had absolutely no place in a looter shooter. 100 of each currency(vanguard and crucible marks) allowed to be earned per week? This was then transitioned into a legendary mark system which removed the weekly cap but throttled your earning potential after a certain amount. Then, if I’m remembering right, you could earn unlimited marks per week eventually. D2 launched as a game with no barrier to entry so that a new player-base could merge into the existing one. Simplified subclass options, easier pathways to max power, etc. Idk what the solution is but it’s interesting to look at how much things have changed but not necessarily improved.
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31 AntwortenNotice how they responded to other posts around this but left this one alone?
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135 AntwortenBearbeitet von TheArtist: 2/12/2019 2:31:15 PMI'll say the same thing that I said about Destiny 2 last year: [i]Destiny 2 is not a bad game. The problem is that its is the WRONG game. [/i] A point that becomes painfully clear after playing The Division 2s beta, and seeing all the ways that Massive have taken what the first game did right, kept and built upon it.....and got rid of all the things that the previous game did wrong. But the core experience is still The Division. Bungie did the exact opposite with Destiny 2. They basically threw out almost everything, and basically tried to create a brand new game and brand new experience....and that's has always been this franchise's problem. Bungie just can't seem to either understand or accept the core identity of the experience they created....and then refined in the first game. Part of that is the hybrid nature of the game itself...and the split personality of the player base. Trying to walk a line between RPG gamers who want depth...and shooter gamers who tend to be intimidated (or easily bored) with that same depth. They just want to have fun shooting things in the face. So Bungie has spent the last 4 years fighting the core identity of the game they created...which is that of a looter-shooter. Even in Destiny 1, Weisznewski and his sandbox team relentlessly and savagely nerfed anything that resembled power-progression in an effort to get the Crucible to play more like competitive Halo...and basically ignored protests form the player base. That same group got control of the design of Destiny 2, and went all in in their effort to remake Destiny into an augmented mobility remake of Halo....with a thin coating of RPG. Only to have the community reject it. The Sandbox team came to their senses, made a major course correction, and returned the power-fantasy to the game. Only to now have Bungie's investment team start trying to break the game in the opposite direction. Trying to turn the game into this super-grindy MMO with a progression system that is infused from top to bottom with RNG....and designed to throttle progression and break the relationship between progression rate and player time investment. The result is a LOOTER-SHOOTER (you can't change what this game is) that plays in an extremely rigid, extremely shallow way. One that offers the player very little choice or control over how they engage the game. One where progression of any sort is extremely time-consuming....tedious...and unrewarding. Because Bungie took away those rewards do that could exert more control over how the game is played. Which is why I've taken to saying "Destiny is the world's best ARCADE shooter.' The game play is still great. The power-fantasy is back and the game is still FUN to play. .....as a SHOOTER. But as an RPG...[b]this shit is utterly and completely broken.[/b] Almost laughably so. Because it has been entrusted to people who have no idea what they are doing....and are too arrogant and stubborn to learn. So they are slowly----piece by piece---destroying their own game....and alienating the very players that they should be catering to. But that's what happens when you don't know hat you're doing.....refuse to learn...but yet still manage to fall in love with your own ideas to the detriment of all else.
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1 AntwortenI really hope bungie saw this, but at the same time they probably did and ignored it
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Agreed. Basically it all comes down to poor leadership in my opinion, the people on the ground can only do what they are told. This iteration of bungie management simply don’t know how to bring a game together, they also don’t know their target audience.
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4 AntwortenBearbeitet von SwankyButters: 2/14/2019 8:19:11 AMNow if you've heard what's going on with Activision and where Destiny is right now, it's not surprising at all. Activision had their biggest earnings ever in 2018 and they are firing 800 people. That says everything you need to know about Activision's greed... what it doesn't speak on is.... Bungie let them destroy this game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Activision said JUMP and Bungie said, how high? There is little doubt in my mind this is what made Joe Staten and Marty O' quit. The piles of money that Activision was throwing them forced their hand and instead of sticking up for their vision, they folded like a cheap suit. This is the time to make it right, to hand it back over to the brilliant people who conceived of Destiny and all it could be, instead of the people who just wanted to make a buck.
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I don’t really believe it’s that tedious. After playing Destiny for so long I have come to understand most of the systems and how to cut as many corners as possible. I do think RNG can be sometime especially with lorebooks and cosmetics having the lowest drop rates in the game and not having a spot for every shader in the game in the inventory.
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Destiny 2 in a nutshell. Well written and I agree with every one of your points. I’ve finally pulled myself away from D2. It’s only been a week, but what a wonderful feeling it’s been. No more useless grinding, I got to the point that I was wasting valuable time in my life. I only have so much time for my gaming hobby, and I’ve finally realized that playing Destiny regularly is wasting all of my gaming time. I’ve been going through Borderlands 2 again with the intent to finally finish it, and it’s such a refreshing feeling to play a game and not feel like my time spent was a complete waste. Destiny 2 is pretty much dead. I’m hopeful for a Destiny 3, more so then ever with the Activision/Bungie split, but Bungie has a ton of work ahead of them to return the franchise to what it was let alone make a true meaningful improvement with Destiny 3.
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I think you’ve hit a lot of the right points here. The punchline really does seem to be that the core feel of the shooting gameplay is what has kept players around (and, frankly, the game alive) moreso than anything else. Pretty much every other design element in the game is of dubious quality or outright bad, especially the player progression systems. I stopped playing because I could no longer put up with the nonsense of the secondary systems (RNG progression, timegated everything, infusion costing a rare resource) and a continued failure of Bungie to make meaningful or good progress on balancing weapons and classes. Bungie killing off a year of progress by making year 1 gear obsolete made it a lot easier to uninstall the game. I still enjoy the feel of the shooting, but the weak content situation combined with the glaring problems mean I don’t expect to come back. Bungie has not been doing the work to support player needs or quality of play experience, and I can’t really support them as long as they continue to aggressively fail in so many areas.
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1 AntwortenBefore I go, I want to say Destiny wasn't all bad, there was a lot I liked about it. They just could never seem to give the love were it belonged, the players. I guess it's a product of money being the most important thing in our world. It comes with many negatives. I wish you all well, I wish the game and the team well. Good luck all...
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12 AntwortenBearbeitet von Slevi: 2/13/2019 4:10:56 AMYoure viewing the game in the wrong light. Its not your typical RPG where you can go back to old areas as lvl 100 and kill adds with a pebble. Since the game is designed around public events, it encourages you to visit old areas. At the moment, all adds die in 2-3 shots. Pretty standard since it fits the realm of reasonable time to kill. You dont want a game like Division or other looter shooters where it takes 30+ bullets to kill your basic ad. That was the reason why Division on launch month failed. 60+ bullets to kill a basic ad was insane. As for leveling. Its perfect designed for casuals. Just login in for 1-2 hours, do a few milestones and youll gain levels. Its designed so that the grind to max light is easy enough for the casual. As for perks, expect the basic 10% bonus to perks. Anymore than that just throws balance out the window in terms of PVP. The game is perfectly designed for casuals to catch up at any point in their game.
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Tedious? D1 Vanilla was tedious. Did you finally finish that quest? Good. Now run back to the tower to turn it in. That was tedious.
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9 AntwortenAh and not to forget “they blew up the tower, and all our stuff....” to only be faced with needing a brand new character and....loot. That last word can’t be right. It’s a lot of the same stuff that was blown up. No worries, we’ll just grind for it all over again in a slightly different setting. Cayde got off easy. Be prepared for a character wipe PvP only battle royale reboot in D3. With the same loot going all the way back to D1, maybe even a pre-order bonus for a “midnight matte black mythoclast”, but we’ll blow that up too so enjoy the limited use.
