I know everyone has probably seen the stories circulating today about how Destiny 2’s sales are not meeting Activision’s expectations in spite of the up tick created by Forsaken. So I’d like to take this opportunity to point out why I think that is, so here goes:
[u]1) Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1. [/u]
Destiny 2, like any good sequel, should’ve taken the solid foundation of Destiny 1, and built upon it to make a game that was bigger and better than its predecessor in every way. Instead Bungie opted to do a soft reboot and destroy everything fans loved about the first game, only to spend the next year slowly trying to fix the game.
Forsaken is a major improvement over Destiny 2 year 1 in a lot of ways (but not all), but it’s still a shadow of Destiny 1. A lot of the things that were brought back don’t completely fit. Snipers still feel underused in spite of their return to the special slot (and addition to the primary slot). Bounties feel mostly pointless with the exception of the dreaming city bounties. The mods are still meh. Masterwork cores are far too rare and so having a fully masterworked piece of gear is rare and honestly doesn’t feel worth the amount of materials it takes to do so.
[u]2) First impressions are everything. [/u]
Anyone who paid attention to the lead up to the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One back in 2013 knows how bad word of mouth can completely destroy a product. Microsoft was set to release an Xbox One that featured an always online requirement, the inability to trade or loan games to friends or family and no used games. As we all know Microsoft eventually pulled a 180 on these things and shipped the Xbox One with none of those features in the final version of the console, but the damage was already done.
I remember watching a video online of someone from IGN (I believe) going around campuses and on the street asking regular people if they knew anything about video games and if they’d heard of the Xbox One and the most common response was, “that’s the one that doesn’t play used games, right?”. This was AFTER Microsoft had reversed all of those decisions, but it didn’t matter, word of mouth had already spread and there was no going back.
The same thing happened with Destiny 2. Once fans realized what Bungie had done to their beloved series and the backlash began, so did the word of mouth. I still come across people that say things that, “Destiny 2? Didn’t they screw the game up?”. Honestly there’s no going back at this point, they just need to make sure that Destiny 3 is a grand slam.
[u]3) The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny 1[/u]
All of Destiny 1’s raids are better than Destiny 2’s. You can say that this is opinion, and technically it is, but it’s an opinion shared by the numbers. Last Wish has the lowest completion rate of any Destiny raid and I believe it’s because people are intimidated by it (it took Redeem 24 hours to complete it).
The raids in Destiny 2 are way too mechanics heavy. Too much time is spent trying to remember odd symbols or trying to make sure everyone is in a specific place. King’s Fall was a master stroke of raid design. The perfect balance of bosses, jumping, shooting things and puzzles. Same goes for VoG. Crota’s End and WotM were less puzzles and mechanics and more bosses and shooting guys in the face, but if you have to lean more one way than the other, leaning more into the action is always the better bet. At the end of the day the Destiny 2 raids just aren’t as inviting or fun as Destiny 1’s.
[u]4) The gear isn’t as good[/u]
I had high hopes for the exotics in Forsaken and while some are really great, many leave us reminiscing on the amazing exotics of Destiny 1. First off, rocket launchers are trash in Destiny 2. There’s no other way to say it. Even the Two Tailed Fox was a major letdown. Tracking sucks. They all hold 1 rocket before needing to reload. They just aren’t fun.
And why is it that to this day, the majority of the best exotics to ever appear in Destiny were in the base game? The Taken King has a few good ones, but if you ask someone to make a list of their top ten favorite weapons or armor from Destiny 1 or 2, chances are good that most will be Destiny 1 launch items. And I think this is because before the game came out Bungie wasn’t afraid to make gear that was amazing and super fun to use and worth grinding for. It was when they decided to start nerfing everything that things started going down hill. It really says something when all of the best exotics in Destiny 2 are returning Destiny 1 exotics.
[u]5) Destiny 2 should never have been made.[/u]
Destiny should’ve been like WoW. No new numbered games, just expansions that build upon the foundation of the original game. Bungie’s reluctance to simply go back to the systems that everyone loved in Destiny 1 is a problem. I can understand not wanting to revisit what’s already been done from a design standpoint, but it’s also important to be able to realize when you made a mistake by changing something, and recognizing that maybe you need to to reset back to that original system
In order to properly improve upon it.
The weapon slot system is a good example of this. In Destiny 1 it was a perfect system that made sense. But while Forsaken’s system is a major improvement over Destiny 2’s horrible system, Bungie’s unwillingness to fully revert to Destiny 1 leaves this weird system that that tries to be everything to everyone but ultimately feels out of place. In Destiny 1 having the one off exotic that was a special but sat in the primary slot or elemental primaries felt really special and fun.
I know I went long on this but Destiny is my favorite game series and Bungie my favorite game developer and so I really want to see Destiny succeed. But there have been a lot of disappointing mistakes made in recent years to Destiny that I really hope Bungie is able to learn from.
I quit playing Destiny 2 a few weeks ago once I hit 600 because the only thing I had left to pursue were the Forsaken exotics and considering that since Forsaken’s launch I’ve had maybe 10 exotics drop and not a single one was a Forsaken exotic, I didn’t see any point in wasting time grinding for them any longer. And that really sucks to say.
At this point Bungie is going to have to learn how to fix Destiny themselves.
English
#destiny2
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von True: 11/10/2018 9:12:10 AMA lot you had to say here is objective. I personally find Last Wish to be the absolute best raid experience (when done without cheesing) and I think D2 is in a much better state than D1. That being said, D2 is a game that needed to exist, but not in the way it did at release. D1 is running on a heavily outdated engine, it wouldn't have been able to handle much more (hence the reason 360 and ps3 players lost out on rise of iron) so in order for more content to be made, D2 needed to exist. And it had to be bigger and better, but with the mix up in the studio, a release date set and enforced by Activision, and a whole lot of the usual Bungie mishandling, it didnt. Personally, I think D2 falls into that same spot as Half Life 3. Even if the game had released as a spectacular showing of modern gaming, with fleshed out content and story, it would have disappointed. It was a game that was doomed by hype, which was of course made all the worse by it's less than stellar launch and DLC's. As for weapons, I completely agree. The current meta favor about a fourth of the overall archetypes in the game, with the bar being set so high that even the guns that come in second feel like garbage (see literally every auto). The PvP sandbox is NOT in a good place right now, and is honestly one of the biggest downfalls of the game, in large part because a good third of the endgame requires you to spend time in the crucible (something that shouldn't even happen in the first place). I was hoping to see some larger shifts with the next patch, but it's become clear to me the Bungie is scared to move if something is divisive (see example Telesto) and are afraid that if they take one little misstep, then its gonna drive the community into an even further hatred. As for exotics, I've found myself enjoying a lot of what I've earned over the course of the game right now. Sure, there are absolutely a few stinkers, but that's nothing new to Destiny. I think D2 has one of the most competitive exotic economies (atleast in terms of armor) that the game has ever had. However, with the weapons it's a different story. While many are fun and just about all are usable, there is a clear disparity between the best exotics and those that play second fiddle. Weapons like Malfeance for example, while absolutely wonderful in their ideal environment are simply pushed to the sidelines in favor of those all terrain exotics like Sleeper and Wardcliff, who are so good in every aspect of play that it becomes very hard to replace them. Some retooling needs to be done here, but I don't think its buffs. Something I'm sure most Veteran D1 players will have noticed is how few and far between nerfs are in D2. And while I'm all for bringing bad weapons to par with the good weapons instead of bringing them down, this idea of everything being broken is eventually going to well...break. Bungie has, in multiple instances, ignored previous problem weapons in batches of buffs and changes, which is something that needs to change soon. For example, let's look at the super rebalancing coming in Season 5 with the next update. Both Spectral Blades and Chaos Reach are receiving buffs. That's great, it'll make them better to use. But what about problem supers, like Nova Warp? Why aren't they being tuned? What about Blade Barrage? While its great to see these buffs, they will continue to play second fiddle to these two superior supers in the PvP sandbox, simply because they are just that broken, and in the case of Blade Barrage, it even outclasses Spectral Blades in PvE, which is what the entire Way of the Wraith was built around! This happened in the Forsaken update as well, with shotguns not being controlled properly, which has lead to this meta we have now where its shotty or bust. D2 is a hot -blam!-ing mess of a game, but goddamn is it fun. Its feels much better than D1, has a much funnier sandbox than D1, and has a lot more room to grow than D1.
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1 AntwortenI’ve have played this game since the beginning. It is at its lowest point, now, not before forsaken, now! It is a grind mess vs a mess with no grind. Crucible is a mess. No snipers. In destiny? That was d1 for most of the lifespan of d1. Non existent now. The pve is now all fire team based for the simplest of quest and the raid is pretty much a no go for any solo player vs wotm. The design of “fire teams “ only is killing this game and many others. Ive already bought the expansion but I would not recommend this game to anyone.
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Bearbeitet von kl122002: 11/10/2018 8:15:49 AMI really wish Bungie can pick up the right path for the right way asap . They must understand they can't please everyone and so they must have a style in their D2. What makes D2 failed at the beginning is things goes too easy and people soon get bored after having all stuff done. Then now what I can see now is they make it grinding way : unnecessary hard and time consuming and replaced the rich content that original D2 has (just compare number of the exotics from original D2 and those newly added by the Forsaken, you will see what I mean) . It is a very wrong decision . For players who are 20-30+, mostly have jobs or starting a family. Online gaming is a part of their social and entertainment but that is insufficient to call it essential . These hard grinding won't please them. There are many new games every season. Fallout 76 is going to get a share very soon. I wonder how D2 would hold in the market. The recent free give-away is not a bad move , might helps to boost the selling record in Forsaken with the effect from the upcoming BF . However I would say it is still far from "good" .
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Two Tailed Anime Fox is my only Forsaken exotic you will not speak ill of it!!! But holy damn do those rockets fire slow. And holy damn does tracking suck in this game. But it's cute and it's my only Forsaken exotic.
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I think Destiny is at a really high point right now, but it could definitely do with some major changes. Pve is fine, it just lacks variety. Pvp is still just as broken as ever. Heavy ammo dominates the sandbox and supers can roam rampant without many checks. This leads to an overall frustrating environment. Some guns are straight up OP (which is good) while others fail to compete entirely. The game in general just lacks variety and options, and power levels of abilities and weapons have such a wide disparity. A good place to start would be to buff snipers by reducing flinch so they can be more reliable. Also make high-impact ones be able to headshot kill a roaming super. This would actually lead to skilled play where a top tier-player can actually show some skill. Also, shotguns need to be more consistent; they’re like the hand cannons of D1. Its stupid how you NEED certain perks for them to be reliable at range. There’s just a lot of general bullshit with the game. I just think that there are so many moving parts in the sandbox that it’s pretty much impossible to achieve any semblance of balance.
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1 AntwortenThe game just isn’t good and the community is even worse tbh.
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Sales? or In game Microtransactions? Forsaken is the best DLC we've had in a while, and if every future expansion is as good as this one, then the game will prosper for years to come
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D2 sucks. I bought the annual pass so I’ll play it but once year two is done I’m done. The pve sucks. The PvP is worse. The game is trash.
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2 AntwortenDestiny 2 was originally great for casuals, then you had the hardcore elites that complained because they felt the game was too easy. So bungo held a summit with a bunch of content creators and hardcore gamers and retuned the game to make it more for the hardcore players which kind of put the casual players on the back burner. Now the game is more geared for the hardcore players and the casual players are not enjoying it as much. So we saw who they were catering to.. The game is not fun to watch on a stream, because they've made it to where you have to be so serious about it. There's no enjoyment in watching people play a game where they have to be so serious. Destiny one was a lot more laid back, and people would just play the game and goof off. Personally I get tired of watching streamers where they just hop on to show off. I like to watch creators like Mr. Fruit, Blueweslo (even though he NEVER does videos anymore) because they were just do things for fun, and be silly. I liked Bungies original stance that they were not going Esport but I bet it's coming. There is no being silly anymore going into crucible because it's a bunch of team shooting spawn killing and just ultimately too competitive. Crucible in general to me is not fun because the maps do not work with a 6v6 and team shooting, but that is my opinion. There is no way to fix this though, because it's not right to penalize people for being good to help those that struggle to play more comfortably. I had my hopes when they announced that there was going to be a ranked system that this would fix itself but this ranked system is terribly done. It goes by wins rather than your actual average performance (K/D, efficiency), or average of your fireteam. I get tired of the people that their answer is "get good". The reason they are playing a quick play (casual) match is because they just want to have fun, or they are pros just wanting some easy wins against casuals. Again these are my opinions and I don't expect anybody to agree with me.
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1 AntwortenOk the only points I agree with are 2 and 5. Destiny is at the best its ever been. Its just that destiny 2 vanilla and the first 2 dlcs were pretty horrible
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Totally agree.
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It’s because forsaken isn’t really focused on eververse. Destiny is definitely a fun game and has a addictive multiplayer.
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I think part of the problem is in the expectations, you can point out crap ideas on bungies side , but really take a look at what they are saying at this. Bungie created a game for casuals with a heavier micro transaction model, didn't meet expectations. Bungie releases the arguably best dlc ever in forsaken and makes in more hardcore friendly, doesn't meet expectations. Considering it says the franchise actually experienced growth and great sales, and that all of Activision's games are in a slump, its hard to identify what counts as a success with these guys.
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4 AntwortenIt's really sad that all the best exotics in D2 are from D1. Whisper of the worm (pre nerf black hammer) Sleeper simulant Ace of spades Telesto Mida multitool. Also raid lairs suck. Give me a full raid, or do something else ( like spooky forest).
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2 AntwortenThe blunt truth is that Bungie leans to extremes with Destiny 2. With D1 Year 1 the game was unrewarding & far too hardcore due to a ruthlessly unrewarding RNG & bad mechanics. D1 Year 2 was a large step into a more casual experience. D1 Year 2 Aprik Update tipped the scales more. D1 Year 3 hit the sweet spot, which was a game that had progression that was about 60% Hardcore aligned, & 40% Casual. This gave gamers a reason to log in, rewards to promote the reply of content, but also kept the game fast enough to not wear out its welcome. Destiny 2 has been none of that. Even now. Destiny 2 Year 1 was designed for PVP & as a result its non-PVP activities went stale in the blink of an eye. The 100% Casual focus gave players no reason to log in/return. Destiny 2 Year 2 however swing 10p% in the Hardcore direction. Which is just as bad as being 100% Casual. Now players have goals/items to seek but the grind is so long that the game wears out its welcome. Progression is too slow so a large majority feel unrewarded with even dedicated play. The game isn't as approachable, & for new players the game feels more punishing in its deeper aspects (progression, item acquisition), & its burned out/pushed away more players than its regained/retained. The tone deaf approach Bungie has to feedback just adds fuel to the fire. The game is damn good now but there is more work to do & balance needs to be achieved. D1 became a game where all playstyles could progress, but with the more dedicated progressing faster, but it also kept the majority of game modes accessible to all audiences. Bungie needs to recapture that balance. But impo...D3 is there best bet. I don't expect D2 to be able to overcome its hurdles. But additionally D3 will be facing some serious competition. Bungie as a company needs to change if they expect D3 to find any medium of success/overcome D2's stigma.
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3 AntwortenBy the end of Destiny 1 they had massively improved things. There were still problems but those problems were very specific issues. Like ammo and shotguns in the Crucible. Destiny 2 needed to have some systems improved. Not thrown out entirely. [spoiler]GIVE ME SRL AND SPARROW HORNS BACK YOU COWARDS[/spoiler]
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1 AntwortenGood points. #2 especially. First impressions, I feel, drove so many people away from D2. It is why some clans and friends quit playing. The majority, I feel, haven't come back really.
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This is pretty much spot on and I really hope Cozmo prints this and a few of the other well written response in this thread out and hands it out to all the Bungie execs.
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I disagree with all 5 points.
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1 AntwortenThe loot is bad the raid part is true in destiny 1 each boss had simple phases an way better loot the shit we getting now not even all that i go as far to say getting cool shaders is more rewarding than raid loot meaning armor.
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1 AntwortenSpot.On. Nice assessment. My clan finished D1 raids every week to get no rewards, just to play and have fun. Over 100 completions of each D1 raid.. D2? No raid lairs completed together, no last wish,. We just dont care
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1 AntwortenThis is so much true... and niw I'm scared that Activision will try and push harder on micro-transactions to please the investors.
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4 AntwortenWell said and thank you for post. I bump all you said and will add....”And they blew up our da@m loot!” All loot should have carried forward with expansions...through the entire Destiny journey. It should have been the newb in year 9 saying, “Hey, were did you get that wicked looking gear?”, to which the year 9 player says , “Croat’s End man...come on I’ll help you through it!”
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von ShaxxCousin: 11/10/2018 2:00:23 AMXur should’ve had new exotics in his loot pool day one. There’s something going on behind the scenes with Xur they’re not telling us. The real reason he doesn’t have any. It’s definitely not to make them more special. That’s Bs. He’s always had new exotics since the start of this entire game. Watch this new Activision low sales BS bring real exotics to eververse. I’ve been saying it for a while now. The real reason why the exotic drop rate is so low and why Xur doesn’t have any. So people will be more likely to buy them with real money whenever Bungie figures out a way to sell them without making all the players quit. Now they have an excuse.
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And people thought I was an asshole for pointing out that psn had the game for free and now PC does too. Coupled with being able to now buy forsaken as a stand alone, the writing was on the wall and plain to see to anyone with an unbiased eye.