People on this forum seem to like science when it fits their narrative, but when it doesn't, they heavily dislike it. People on this forum treat abortion, politics, religion, and science like their opinion: If someone doesn't agree with their stance, or if someone refutes their stance with sources that go against their stance, they get extremely offended by it, or try to disparage the other person's character rather than continuing the discussion. My opinion on the whole matter is irrelevant, because I'm never going to get pregnant. For abortion posts, I base my posts off of what I learned of Human Bio while getting my degree, and also how the abortion process works using various sites and sources. I treat abortion posts from as an objective point of view as I can manage, because I don't have a very strong opinion about it. I'll still put in my opinion, but it's more on the political part of abortion where I put my opinion, not the science part. I don't view a fetus alive during the time an abortion is still considered legal, [url=https://www.ck12.org/biology/Characteristics-of-Life/lesson/Characteristics-of-Life-Advanced-BIO-ADV/]because it doesn't satisfy all of the characteristics of life as dictated by Biology[/url]. In Biology, if an organism does not satisfy all characteristics of life, it is not considered a living being. By the time the fetus satisfies all the characteristics of life dictated by Biology, it's already past the first trimester, and it's illegal to abort at that time unless rare and dire circumstances occur, like the mother potentially dying because of the pregnancy. From the academic point of view, without investing any emotion or opinion into the whole thing, I consider a fetus during the first trimester as not a living being. A fetus during the first trimester cannot reproduce, and it does not have the capability to reproduce until Week 12, during the second trimester. This is because from Weeks 7-12, the sex organs of a fetus begin to differentiate into their respective sexes from undifferentiated sex organs. After the sex organs are fully differentiated around Week 12, not too long (about a week) after this is done, the fetus will begin making eggs or sperm. Again, I don't put any of my opinion into this part. I put down what I learned and studied for while getting my degree. I also had the idea that life began when the sperm joined the egg back when I first started college, but then my opinion of that changed after deciding to pursue Human Bio as my major. Now, when it comes to science, I try to keep things as objective as possible. Below is where I put in a little bit of my opinion. After the first trimester when abortion is illegal, I consider the fetus a living being. Abortion happens naturally (miscarriages) and artificially, but I don't understand why people advocate and support banning abortions. If someone who is pro-life would like to discuss this, I'm all ears. The only thing that banning abortion will accomplish is banning safe abortions. Mothers who do not want to carry to term will still get abortions, except there will be no safeguards, and stuff like coat hanger abortions in dirty alleyways will become more common rather than just going into a clinic. Rather than punishing people for having sex, we should dedicate less on banning something and more on safe sex education.

Here’s the thing. It isn’t truly alive until it’s brain fully grows, and that happens after a person’s actually born, so technically an embryo isn’t life yet. Either way it’s a choice. Because it’s America. You can choose whether you want to or not. It’s not for you and I to meddle in or decide for the person.

They really got balls to be making that kind of merch. [spoiler]Im sorry.[/spoiler]

Dude you really just enjoy stirring the pot, dont you

Because this country is based on the basis of freedom for every person. Whether or not you believe it's murder is not up to you it is ultimately up to the person. You should not force your opinion on others.

It's about as close to murder as killing a cow. Or a chicken. Or a deer. Or a bear. Or a tree. Or [i]literally -blam!-ing anything[/i]. Did you eat dinner yesterday? Congratulations, you ate the product of someone who terminated a life. It's legal, and it's your choice. Do you live in a house? There used to be vegetation there. Terminated. The only lasting achievement of humanity will be to eventually create a world that's not capable of supporting life. That's it. I say we kill them all before that can happen. [spoiler]And that's [u]my[/u] choice.[/spoiler]

It's not up to politicians to decide what a woman can and can't do with her body.

It's murder. Killing an child that cannot do ANYTHING is bad. But intentionally killing a child [i]that has not been born yet and you were given the job by God to protect this child[/i] is terrible. End of story.

Yeah, it is legal and women have the right to do it, but it is terminating a life. There is no two ways about it. Pro choice people call it a "fetus" so they can pretend its not and allow themselves to sleep at night. That being said, I don't feel I have the right to dictate to woman what they can/cannot do with their bodies. So, I'm basically on the fence about the whole thing.

It’s their body let them make the decision I don’t really care

It’s terminating life, sure. Fetuses aren’t human yet though. They’re not sentient and not developed. Furthermore, criminalizing abortions not only doesn’t stop them, but prevents them from happening safely which can endanger the lives of the women receiving them. It’s a woman’s body and it should be her choice whether or not she wants to allow the fetus to develop within her, or have it safely terminated.

When religious people stop overpopulating the earth with their "Go forth and multiply" attitudes, then they can start chiming in on abortion. 1- the world is overpopulated 2- poverty stricken religious cultures have the most children Having way too many of your own children that you can't support, while trying to force others to have children that they can't support, and don't even want. So practice abstinence, show some respect for this world, and show respect for other people's beliefs if you want yours to be respected. But if your reasoning involves imposing your religion on others, don't bother chiming in. "You must change your behavior because my god says so." is not a valid argument.

I absolutely agree, it's crazy how heated this topic got and here's my two cents on the subject. First off this isn't against women. I agree with feminism. People that give the same quality of work should be paid the same even if one of them is a women. A word of advice tho separate yourselves from the femaleists(extreme feminists) and your movement will turn from a joke into something people actually want to follow. I absolutely respect women especially the ones who are moms. They sacrifice so much for us. Also women are super hot. I am pro life because I am a believer in choice and consequence. Everyone has a choice but they don't get to chose the consequences of that decision. When people mess with stuff like this they should know that there is a chance they could become parents and they should accept it. Even with lots of protection there isn't a 100% guarantee. People should know that and accept that and if they don't then we should teach them. At a young age girls should learn that they shouldn't let anyone touch them. Shove femalist views down their throats if you have to. Boys should also know that they shouldn't touch girls either. When they are older it's fine but still they should know what they're getting into and that if they mess with that stuff they could end up being parents. The problem is people have an "accident" and they want an easy out(I'm not talking about R a p e victims they are a different story) and abortion is that easy out. This is showing them that they can do whatever they want and they won't have to accept the consequences. If we were to get rid of abortion (except for the special cases) people would do this after learning the kinda things that happens to you when you are pregnant and that playing with that fire is a bad idea if you don't want to be a parent.

Why do you feel the need to stir the shitstorm?

I support it

Hot topic is an abortion of a store? I agree. ...that's what were talking about, right?

It is the termination of human life. But in a secular world, there are no morals.

The thing that most strikes me about anti-abortion ppl is that they only seem to really care while the woman is pregnant. They don't seem to care that the child, once born, will likely lead a life of poverty and deprivation. It's all about getting the born and thats it. It's easy to care for 9 months, but where are they during the 18 years that follow. I think if you want to impose your will on others, you should at least bear some of the burden for the outcome. They are willing to help for 9 months, then the mom and kid are on their own. I think if they had to actually share some of the financial responsibility for these kids, their opinion might soften a little. At the end of the day, talk is cheap. If they really cared about these kids, that caring wouldn't end the day they are born.

Well, yes, but, no. It's not the termination of a human life, as it isn't sentient. A few answers to things that people commonly ask me due to this sentiment; [spoiler]- No, two sentient things are not of equal value. - The former may be disregarded as the value of any sentient thing is beyond compare, measurement, or comprehension, so for all intents and purposes, they are equal - If it will become sentient does not matter; Only if it is - Sentient's definition is considered by myself to be capable of rational thought and be able to experience the world around it - The former is why I'm against 3rd trimester abortions; by that time the fetus has become sentient - I believe all sentient things deserve equal rights, under the assumption they can understand those rights. Some additional rights are still extended to those that cannot understand them - This is on a case-by-case basis and does not include the right to live unless its species is endangered. - I would vote for a monkey, robot, or anything else really for any political office if it proved itself more capable and reliable than any other canidate[/spoiler]

Call it what you want, it's her body and if she doesn't want a human to grow inside it, she doesn't have to.

As for why abortion is such a touchy subject, it's because on the surface it seems like murdering a defenceless child. On the other hand, making it illegal seems like forcing a woman to raise a child they may be unable to look after or had no choice in bringing up. For both sides of the debate, it's extremely controversial.

The argument I always bring up in this debate is fairly simple. Pigs. A pig is sentient, conscious, one of the most intelligent creatures on the planet, can think, can feel pain. Very few people care when one is killed. A foetus is not sentient, not conscious, cannot think, cannot feel pain. If one is killed, everyone loses their mind. Something isn't right there.