[b]F[/b]ucking snakes in the grass. They started to slip up during Reach, but at least Reach was fundamentally a good game. Then they lost Griesemer and Lehto, fired Marty, forced Joe to leave, and it became clear that the studio was pretty much [b]f[/b]ucked from that point on. After that they shat out the most insipid "AAA" title I've ever seen and saw it as an opportunity to enter the gambling business. What a mess. How do you go from Halo to this? R.I.P Bungie 1991–2010

Aren't you tired of repeating yourselves? They're clearly not listening. All of this impotent parroting is getting really old.

I'm a BIG Destiny FANBOY. However, enough is enough. I am not pleased with the product delivered to us by Bungie. In a nutshell, IT SUCKS Let me expand on what I mean. Mercury is too small. I mean one public event and one Lost sector? Enemies are buffed and guardians are weaklings Abilities take too long to charge. I mean the whole draw to Destiny is the coolness and fun of our abilities. Loot table is WAY to small. Crucible is a mess The game has so many glitches it's as if nobody actually tested it. Enough with the nerfs. That is how Destiny One was broken. People point out how good pulse grenades and shoulder charge and Prometheus Lense are and they get nerfed and destroyed. Tokens absolutely stink and are unfair and boring. I could go on for hours but I hope you get the picture.

I'm a vet too don't think it was catering for casuals that killed it more the fact that there was nothing in the game. They should of had everything d1had at the end and a lot more. Strike armour sets weapons ships sparrows ghosts. Old d.ick face that comes every Friday should of had his own armour sets weapons ships sparrows ghosts shaders and all tess things should of been mission rewards or lost sector rare drops. But nothing bare bones shooter that was good until end game

Weird how the fans get pleasure from watching their game get flak. I mean u pretty much said it in that last paragraph. You don't care about it getting better you just want your misguided rage to be validated. Sucks... I wish this place was filled with constructive and interesting conversation about how much this game has entertained us.

The first step is stop pretending like this bungie is even remotely close to the same bungie we knew. There are plenty short documentaries out there showing their down fall as big name after big name left. Bungie is just a name. It's like when your mom turns into a zombie and you have to make that decision to shoot her in the head, after she changed was she really your mom anyway?

I’m still enjoying the games they produce, that’s what I think.

AAA titles are shit. Casual gamers are just as pissed as “hardcore” fans with this game and others. Probably should get off your high horse and come down to reality a bit.

So, this is not to be combative but to be thought provoking and discussion worthy...not not hit that mark, we’ll see. I agree with a lot of what you write. A couple things I don’t, but I only really wanna focus one one point. I think the whole “casual” argument needs more thought. In a non subscription based game, such as this, I believe casuals are what pay the bills. Why? Because in a game that is persistent online with a desire to create end game activities, such as raids (will get back to this), they need a more steady revenue than just initial purchases. I’m sure there will be comments about how much money it takes, how much money they make, look at such and such game, yards-yada. The Witcher isn’t persistent and overwatch has virtually no campaign. The division is really about the only game comparable to destiny at this point. Maybe the souls games, but still there are no “raid” type things with those games I believe. And no, warframe does not either. They are close, but not quite. But I’m sure I will hear from warframe fans anyway. Ok. So in place of subscription they have micro transactions. “Hard core” players don’t like micros. They would be willing to support a game if there was subscription. I honestly find that a tad ironic. Destiny’s micros is obviously controversial atm, so please don’t get side tracked with that. My point is that because destiny is not sub based, and it’s persistent, compensation is found through micros (whether or not I or anyone else agrees in that model). The raid coulda, shoulda, woulda. However you define the activity, they are more epic in scale visually and immersion than I’ve ever played. Just my opinion maybe, and how good they are will always be subjective. But if we want them and want more out of the ones we have, I understand they would require more green. Again, that’s also a hot topic. So, back to “casuals” versus “hard-core.” The interesting development in this game whether intended or not is that casuals actually have more payout long term and short term than hard-core. That’s why I believe more hard core players are feeling they way they do. Whether or not you agree, the current model, not gameplay, favors casuals even if they leave. When they come back, guess who’s spending the money? Hard-cores and their no micros attitudes, or casuals who don’t mind dropping the extra money to get the stuff you’ve been grinding for, all the while giving nothing extra for? Raid, raid, raid. Strikes, strikes, strikes. Grind, grind, grind. “Casual” comes in and buys the set. You didn’t pay, they did. You grounded, they didn’t have to. So who’s really keeping this game going? IMO, you need to stop thinking in terms of “casuals” versus “hard-core.” I’m not trying to draw conclusions about what it going on with micros or end game in general and whether or not it is good. I can’t help but notice though that there is a lot of talk about hard cores being the ones that keep games around. May be the the case for some games. May be for certain game types. It may also b that those two categories aren’t really understood or defined well but we use them to suggest how games ought to look for those types of players. I may have wondered off a bit at this point. Hard-core or not, I think we need to get off those terms and realize games have changed as well their patrons. They way games operate, the players that play, development and expectations have all changed. We who were kids playing the original consoles have grown, and we see gaming differently than those getting their teeth cut into the gaming industry. It’s all changed. Thoughts? Edit: there are clear grammatical and spelling errors...had a 4 year old climbing on me. Still do :)