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"It is too casual friendly." More specifically to your point about Nightfall Timers. I have always been against the Nightfall Timer, on the contrary, I always praised D1 Nightfalls for making strikes feel different, more strategic. A room I used to blast through in Heroic, suddenly I had to think about how I wanted to get through. "We get loot too fast." I have never said that the loot drops were too quick. In fact I have always advocated that the problem isn't with how much loot is dropping, but rather the uniqueness of the drops. (Explained in the following point) "...something to grind for..." I never was a proponent of Random Rolls and in fact was an advocate of having customizable perks back in D1, but was eventually satisfied for a time with the whole re-rolling mechanic. I have always felt a mod system where you can pick up a Triple Tap mod or Firefly mod to attach to your gun would be much more efficient than a random roll system. With random rolls you are throwing away guns/armor left and right. But what if you liked the style of that piece of armor? Well if you got the roll you wanted on another piece of armor, and that armor took you weeks to obtain, would you really do it all again for the right roll, right armor? It was taxing. BUT grinding for the perk would allow you to keep the weapons and armor you like when you finally obtained that weapon or armor and then devote yourself to then grind for the perk you wanted for that piece. Never lessens the grind, but makes it more rewarding instead. Even went and made a mock up of what the new mod system should look like: New Layout: https://imgur.com/IDWEwea Infusion: https://imgur.com/4gHfpzI Shaders: https://imgur.com/vwafxft Damage Mods: https://imgur.com/5ZbXNN5 Primary Trait Mods: https://imgur.com/WNeJTLu Secondary Trait Mods: https://imgur.com/2o59hnh "We want D1 back." I have never cried about something being a reskin, I only ever cried about how Bungie is taking this moderate approach to making perks. And in fact, after the Taken King, I didn't want Bungie to come out with another Destiny. I thought what they had begun doing was something finally worth being praised (minus some of the questionable decisions made between TTK release and the end of Year 3.) But I went along with it because I thought, "Well they proved to me that they understand how to make this game fun and build upon it, there is no doubt in my mind they can screw up with a Destiny 2." Oh how wrong I was. "We want the old weapon system back." I never once complained about PvP, but that may be because I have always hated PvP. The times I did play it I never thought it was that bad. Sure I had some complaints about how boring some of the game types were, but never complained about the weapons. Except maybe how I felt sorry for some of my PvP brethren who seemed to always be getting shafted with nerfs that didn't really affect me in my PvE gameplay. I was always very content and happy with the way the system was set up, Primary/Secondary/Heavy. Did always question why Bungie had such an aneurysm about elemental primaries. It was like watching someone have an allergic reaction. Now the elements on weapons are so ridiculously useless and have no meaning to whether you have an Arc, Solar, or Void weapon it makes me wonder why they even bothered to return them. Just make them Energy if there isn't going to be elemental differences. I have come to the conclusion that we have entered an Era of Sameness. Where nothing feels extraordinary, nothing feels that great, nothing feels different, just mediocre. And worst of all, I think it was all done by design.

I don't ask for much and never asked for a brand new game with all the things that made D1 enjoyable removed. All I wanted was a game that was as fun to play as Destiny 1 was. Haven't found the fun in D2 but rather frustration with the core mechanics of the game and every new system they decided to implement in the game. Bungie is confused for sure, not sure it's our fault though...

I think separating PVP and PVE would help to reduce the contradictions of what the community wants.

Especially the part about more primary gun fights. Can't tell you how many times in D1 it was brought up that there needed to be a focus on primary weapons in gun fights. D2 comes out and now you have TWO primary weapons, and people still bitch.

Super Mario 2 didn't have the same enemy types.

Nobody complained about special ammo. Bungie just took it because they wanted it to work differently.

Yeah cause its the exact same people who contradict themselves. Not two didn't sides of the community. One side wants one thing the other side wants the other. There are always two sides to an opinion.

bungie just need too do pvp how they what and stop hearing whining crybabies.

I very much agree. Many complain that the PvP skill curve was too unbalanced so they took out the unbalanced weapons and made them power weapons. They also complained there was too much nade spamming. Now the community is complaining that there isn't enough nade spamming and they don't have their 30 aim assist ice breakers on D2 to do everything for them because other guns besides the MIDA, Uriels and Last Hope take at least a bit of effort to aim with. In fact I don't understand either. The community complains that the games skill curve is too low but I always felt cheesing the crucible with shotguns was as much as a casual experience as it gets.

Yeah, but most arguments stem from the same general ideas: D2 is boring and unrewarding for non-casual players.