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#feedback

Bearbeitet von gaiawarior: 5/30/2017 5:35:19 PM
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I am very concerned about Destiny 2...

I am concerned, very much so about the state of Destiny 2... It is looking to be a bigger mess than Destiny 1 for its launch, yes they've built on the story and lore of the Destiny universe, but it seems as if they are needlessly messing with the part of Destiny 1 that kept many people around - The Gunplay. Let's be honest for a minute, most people who stuck around all through Destiny 1 (especially year 1) didn't stay for the story, they stayed because the game felt oh so good to play. With the ability to tear through enemies with ease and be complete badasses, shredding a group of thralls with an auto rifle before sniping the wizard on the other side of the room, before shooting a rocket into the boss' face is a great feeling, not only for the power that the player wields, but for the great variety and fluidity of the gunplay involved. This change does not, I repeat NOT improve that sense of empowerment, nor the fluidity of gameplay from what I've seen, with snipers and fusion rifles now reserved only for the toughest of enemies, and having to choose between them and the large-scale destruction-rush of the actual heavy weapons i.e. rockets / grenade launchers whilst primarily relying on one of two primary weapons, with the same mechanics and feel. The reduction in variety of gunplay is certainly a gaping wound in the series I've come to love so dearly, and the AUDACITY of Bungie to refer to this new system as "Freedom Slots" is only rubbing in salt. Many players may defend these changes as healthy improvements to PvP, which they are, to be sure. However it seems that the PvE experience will be suffering as a result once again, an unfortunate trend when it comes to Destiny. Many may rush to say that PvP is what kept the game alive during its long droughts of PvE content, which is partially true, although many either completely left Destiny during those droughts or continued on in PvE content as well. The reality is, however, that Destiny is not, never has been, and never will be a primarily PvP experience. PvP kept the game alive during droughts, not because it is the focus of the game (if it was the primary focus of the game there would not be such noticeable droughts). No, it kept Destiny alive because it was a sideshow, a break from the meat of Destiny's content. Balancing the entire game based on a feature that is, to most players, an aside to the primary components of the game is fundamentally wrong. The delusion that Destiny's Crucible is a competitive environment capable of supporting the series is Ludicrous. Destiny could not survive as a series without its campaign and endgame PvE content, the seemingly endless dedication of Bungie towards placing Destiny within the ranks of competitive "MLG" gaming is an affront to the players waiting with bated breath for the next PvE event or DLC drop, the players who simply leave the game after a while, as there are a lot of options out there for competitive PvP multiplayer, and Destiny is certainly not in the limelight in that regard. Hopefully Destiny 2 will have a much greater edge in that arena, however this does not mean that the core of the series should be cast to the wayside. The player power fantasy is important to, not just Destiny fans, but to gamers as a whole, with even games like Dark Souls empowering the player, whether it is the sense of accomplishment from defeating a difficult boss, or looking like a badass swinging your favorite Ultra-Greatsword around one-handed. The player power fantasy comes not only from damage numbers, or how quickly you can kill an enemy, or groups of enemies, it comes from choice, the ability to play the game in the way you desire and still feel powerful and be rewarded for your time and effort, not restricting your ability to choose the methods by which you will be able to customize your playstyle (with both subclass perks and weapon slots being restricted) I would like, for an Bungie employee perusing the comments who has suffered through my block of text, to propose a compromise. Sure, have your energy and power slots, but what I would like to see (this being, at least in my opinion a legitimate improvement from Destiny 1) old - school secondaries in the energy slot, however these ought to be restricted to PvE only, that way everyone can benefit. When I say this I don't mean for there to be exotics like No Land Beyond or Universal Remote, rather that there be weapons of every rarity that would be either converted into Heavy Weapons upon entering a PvP match, or simply only usable as energy weapons in PvE activities. Sure, the idea of "Taking your favorite weapons with you into every activity" will be hurt, but I would rather see my weapons usable more reliably and more often than once every 10 minutes in PvE, and to not have to hate myself for wasting ammo shooting a dreg from across the Cosmodrome instead of walking over to him. As it seems now, I am wavering on the edge of even wanting to purchase Destiny 2, and while I probably will, I am unsure if I will find it as a worthy successor to the (sometimes) hot mess of a game that is Destiny 1. I sincerely hope Bungie listens to the feedback that they are receiving from their community and makes some changes. EDIT: For those of you discussing my concern about the gunplay, I have responded thusly: "I didn't mean to say that the core gunplay mechanics are being changed directly. My point was that the freedom and customization limitations we are seeing will change the pace of combat. As someone who likes to snipe worthless targets in PvE activities just because it was a cool shot I like to use my sniper as much as possible, and I feel that this new system is restrictive to people who like to run around with their secondary weapons, something that, even psychologically isn't possible with the new system with as much enjoyment as before. With these weapons now being all under the classification of "heavy" weapons it is difficult to justify wasting three sniper shots to clear out that squad of vandals from across the hellmouth, or to use that shotgun instead of a melee attack when dealing with things like explosive precision throwing knives. My ultimate complaint isn't about the core gunplay, and it's fantastic that it's remaining the same, it is a concern about a reduction in the variety of combat and customization options"
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#feedback

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  • Yep! Complaining just to complain is what I took from this post.

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  • I agree that this does reduce the customization in one way, but in another way it does increase the customization too. I for one always wanted the ability to equip two different primaries to make quick range changes. And in your response to your edit with the... [quote]With these weapons now being all under the classification of "heavy" weapons it is difficult to justify wasting three sniper shots to clear out that squad of vandals from across the hellmouth[/quote] One big purpose of the change in the gun selection was to make gunplay more strategic in that very purpose. And I'd just like to say that the game isn't even out yet. We have no clue on the diversity of weapons, and which exotics will become must-haves for PvE and/or PvP. The even the public got limited access in the game at the reveal. So I'd just like to say keep an open mind, since there has been many aspects of Destiny 1 that received harsh criticism from the community, and are now a major components to the players. We estimate that the Beta launches in a month, so until then, let's not jump to any conclusions.

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  • The health of pve enemies may be reduced just ever so slightly to compensate for the new weapon system, I wouldn't worry about PvE. Besides, PvE could do with a difficulty increase anyway.

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  • Very concerned means dont -blam!-ing buy, trust your gut feeling, but if you already PO'd why -blam!-ing speak? its too late for you.

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  • The gunplay is the same, ask anyone that went to the reveal. What you're talking about is the weapon loadout system!

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  • It will be interesting to see what happens when they take snipers out of the occasion and make them into heavy we going to see snipers drop from being used for everything to like 30% of the game and it might be fun to see that.

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  • Destiny 2 will be fine. Bungie have merely removed the 'one man army' aspect.

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  • Freedom Slots? Sounds like Freedom Caucus aka "No Healthcare for YOU!". Bungie just remade the classes by cutting them into pieces and reassembling them in some other form. Looks like new, but is mainly what we already got with some small lterations. They made Sunsinger into some kind of Sunbreaker/Sunsinger Hybrid and Striker Titan got mixed with Bladedancer. There is a complete lack of new things other than some new gfx. Game designers should invest in "IDEAS" not only 4k gfx and new GPU shader code. The first new strike was very simmilar to a mix of PoE and the Black Garden mission. Three times the same enemy and some simple mechanics we already know from PoE. It looks good, but not 70€ good. I already can play PoE and The Black Garden.

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  • Your concern is completely valid, PvE player's effectiveness, efficiency and sense of power has been sacrificed on the PvP alter...again. The need for PvP balance and PvE power simply can't coexist and bungie has made their choice by cloning the Halo weapon system. A far more simple way to have gone about this would have been standardized weapons for PvP. This way any and all nerfs are strictly confined to PvP and PvP players have their balance and leaving PvE power fantasies alone. Another way they could have gone has been trumpeted by BXRLonstar here, simply make shotties, fusions and snipers energy weapons in PvE only. By cloning Halo they've removed what made D1 unique and fun.

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  • I think the gunplay is going to be fine. The smooth gunplay was always good in Destiny, even when lag and other issues persisted. Regardless of whether you are restricted to D2 loadoout or D2 loadout won't change anything regarding the gun mechanics IMO. I'm more concerned about the fact that they limited us to 2 primaries in PVE. This is just another concession PVE players will have to make for the sake of PVP - and with no guarantee that they will stop imposing changes in PVE for the sake of PVP. This is by far my most concerning issue. EVEN IF, as Sols and others have argued, that it actually works, is fun, and plays well, it is still yet another change PRIMARILY FOR PVP, that effects PVE. Isn't that the main problem so many of us complained about in D1? That PVP was effecting PVE play? Well here is yet another example, only this example comes from D2 rather than D1. On the face, it seems like they haven't learned their lesson. And that concerns me. It also concerns me that the game appears to have been built from the ground up with PVP in mind. Making all supers roaming supers makes them easier to balance in PVP because ALL guardians bring equal powers to the table. Removal of power weapons from PVP makes it easier to balance PVP. Pairing down PVP from 6 players to 4 was primarily for the sake of hardcore sweaty PVPers and ignored the fact that some raid groups really liked to stick together and play PVP together as well, particularly for Iron Banner. That is a very important observation to make seeing as how at least half of the community wanted them to focus on PVE rather than PVP. While they may have made tons of PVE content, it seems clear that PVP and PVP balance was a primary focus with D2 - and they did so to try to position D2 to make a run towards becoming an E-Sport. IMO, the game is taking too many steps away from what made the game so much fun and addicting to play, particularly in Y1. And D2 just represents several more steps away from that formula.

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  • Que all the Bungieholics that are going to slam you for complaining about a game that "hasn't been released"- even though the rest of us know just how much PvP will once again drag PvE into another endless black hole of shit thanks to whining crucibabies.

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    • I feel like they're turning all of the supers into roaming supers for just this reason. If we have roaming supers then we're more likely to use them in between the kinetic/energy and the power weapons. Roaming supers in PVE are usually for killing adds, and the tougher the adds it kills, the better. And most subclasses seem to be focusing on making our supers worth using in that regard. But that's the real shame to me. Supers were called the "Dragon of Light" by Saladin because they're supposed to be our greatest tools against the darkness. People used to save their supers for bosses, but I predict that, for the most part, they'll become rather useless. For raids, I'm predicting that people will run Gunslinger the only super I see as useful on bosses because you can quickfire 6 rounds at the boss, Sunbreaker because it gives the most distance and destruction for adds and Dawnblade for the same reason as Sunbreaker. Instead of saving supers for bosses, it will be titan walls and warlock rifts, and generating orbs for Golden Guns. Maybe you'll get a Sentinel if it's a heavy damaging boss... but I'd still say maybe. So really, it's mostly a shuffle, and people may enjoy it anyway, but I think OP is right, especially with the removal of Intellect, Strength, and Discipline. Because add-clearing supers will happen less often and around the same time for most people. Assuming there aren't exotics that take intellect's place.

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      • I agree with this mostly. Watching the reveal stream honestly made me sad as I started to realize the direction Bungie was taking the game. Honestly has no one who plays Destiny right now ever played Halo? LOL. I am so surprised not to see more people talking about the similarities. Especially when it comes to weapons! It would appear that rather than find creative ways to improve the amazing weapon system that exists in Destiny right now, Bungie made the curios decision to simply copy and past the system from some of the later Halo games. This became ever more apparent as I watched the stream and summarily videos from prominent youtubers like TruVanguard. This is probably the most disappointing part of the reveal. I've really enjoyed the Crucible and even tho I hate the status of special ammo right now I still feel like the "new direction" is a huge copout.

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        • Don't you just love it when Bungie can't figure out how to make PVP AND PVE good at the same time? Just about every game out there has a first person shooter PVP, and Bungie still chooses to pick this over the PVE in Destiny which is the only thing that makes it unique. I like to play both PVE and PVP, but it's ridiculous when they choose to make another "great PVP game" (because we don't have enough of those already) and they completely throw Destiny's PVE uniqueness out the window.

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        • Hopefully the Beta will give you better insight, before writing it off completely. At least that is what I will be doing.

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          • I agree with everything you said. What's more, there's now a plethora of topics about these concerns (changes made in D2 for PvP with PvE taking all the consequences) both here and on DTG Reddit. I'd love for someone at Bungie to actually address these concerns and give us their full, unedited motivation behind this change. At the very least we would feel acknowledged from our feedback.

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          • Just ignore the hype train and expect it to be 10000000 times worse than Destiny 1 and you will have no disappointments.

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          • Unless you were invited to the reveal I don't really see how your opinion on this is even possible. You haven't played the game so you have no idea how the gameplay is. You can watch other people play all you want but you won't really know until you try it for yourself. You could have someone describe how tasty a steak is but you won't know how tasty until you take a bite. You're acting the steak tastes like shit before you've even tasted it......sound dumb to me.

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            • All I have to say... unless the servers are down for a week, it is impossible for any game to be more of a mess than destiny at launch.

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              • It's a good thing to have concerns but also an open mind towards the game instead of writing it off. Bungie needs to really wow everyone with the beta as after D1 it's going to really make or break things for a lot of folks.

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              • There's going to be a beta. Play it.

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                • Disagree. The changes that Bungie made are pretty logical, given Destiny 1s problems. What is going on here is that the changes are simply highlighting the divides that have ALWAYS existed in this community. Between its shooter-gamer/pvp oriented and its MMO-RPG/ PvE-oriented factions. Unlike Destiny 1, where Bungie was trying to (futilely) please everyone, they have picked a clear direction they wish to go with the game....and in a community this diverse (and vocal)....there are going to be some people who are unhappy with the changes. Or the "lack" of changes in some areas. Bottomline, is that Bungie simply couldn't balance PVP around the old system....and maintain the kind of game play in PVP that they wanted. They would have had to either significantly quickent TTK----which they didn't want to do. Or absolutely nerf all the game's OHK weapons to the point of unusability or significantly nerf player speed and mobility which WE wouldn't have wanted.

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                  • Entirely too long of a rant. Thumbs down.

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                  • D2's gonna suck shit best to play other games👎🏻

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                    • Power Ammo spawns faster in D2 doesn't it? Or have we not seen it outside of Countdown?

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                      • The gunplay hasn't been touched. The changes you speak of have no effect on it. However, I see the cocern over weapon slots as a valid one and I too was very concerned. But then I saw a video by someone, think it was Skillup, and he said powr ammo dropped all the time when he played that Spire strike. So now I am less concerned.

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