The secondary nerf is like Obamacare. Nobody wanted it. It was forced. It stinks like Eris's eye gunk. And you don't get to keep your original providerImean gun. And don't get me started about the rates!

I used to defend Crucible and Destiny. I had worked on improving my "stats" over the last few months, as before that I never cared. I changed from a run and gun die a million times per game player into playing reserved and picking spots and picking gun fights to get invovled with. I'll preface by saying I was a sidearm user WAY before the patch update. But only used them as self defense weapons when my scout rifle would not be ideal in a situation. For a few months I'd play a couple hours per day and have one or two matches at most with a negative K/D and often one of those would be when joining the end of a match. But how Crucible evolved the last week or two is garbage. Full fire teams stomping the shit out of randoms, red bars everywhere. Utter -blam!-ing chaos. There is no way to play reserved anymore and there is no room or time to breathe. Its constant bum rushing, bunny hopping, red bar laggers and network exploiters. You can't get into long-range gun fights now because No Land Beyond has no finch, all snipers are one hit kill weapons, pulse rifles are two crit kills and have the range of sniper rifles for some stupid reason, hand cannons have become the primary weapon meta and they kill in two shots or less... Bungie decided to cater to the whiners that wanted quick time to kill. For some reason Bungie decided to castrate scout rifles. Their damage output is far below what they should be in comparison to pulse rifles. They stripped scout rifles of dealing flinch while every other weapon deals flinch. I miss the shotgun meta because at least you could counter by playing with long-range weapons. This current meta shoves every damn thing down your throat at once. There is no play style to counter. I have tried everything in an attempt to figure out how to counter it. Long range gun fights are gone. Snipers and pulse rifles win every time. Scout rifles can't counter now. Mid range gun fights are gone because of hand cannons and their two hit kill. Short range gun fights are gone because of sidearms. You can't be out in the open because snipers. You can't fight from cover because bum rushers. MAP ROTATION IS GONE. I am shoved into the same 3 or 4 -blam!-ing maps over and over. I have barely seen Rusted Lands. Today was the first time I saw Rusted Lands in two weeks. The first week and a half or so after the patch the meta was still evolving and there was more weapon diversity. But as players had more time to acquire "god roll" hand cannons and sniper rifles the Crucible has degenerated into such a shit show it is nearly unplayable. I had defended Crucible and Destiny for so long but I am finally now among the detractors...and it is Bungie's own fault. They can't just stop -blam!-ing their own game. They alienate players with certain play styles. And as they have pushed each group out over time they finally reached the group i belong to. Reserved play style with scout rifle low kill numbers but low deaths. And to add to this mess they are now removing our choice of what Crucible playlist we want. Now we will be forced to play what ever arbitrary game type they shove in our face each week... I have never seen a game developer so hell bent on wanting their mass player population to be bad at their game, to not have fun playing their game, to not be successful playing their game, to be denied items in the game, and to be blocked from playing content in the game... What then is my money going to? So "streamers" can have what they want? I HATE to say this about a game I love...but I may finally be one of those who say they are done until Destiny 2 is released. I am curious to see how things develop over the first couple of weeks after the next update but if it is still unbearable...i guess thats it.

Agreed. Tonight was the last straw. I recently got Google fiber...3ms ping with consistent 400+ u/d and I'm getting matched with 3-4 red bars EVERY game the past 2 weeks. The crucible is Hepatitis A thru Z.

Special ammo needs to be changed again, Sticky grenades need reduced aim assist, and flame shield needs another nerf

Speaking of crucible being dead. Who else read the changes to crucible playlists rotating every week? That seems like the most insane idea they have ever implemented. I only ever log in to play skirmish and clash. According to TWAB images both of which are on the same playlist rotation, meaning they only make an appearance every other week. Did I read that right??

I normally don't complain but holy hell am I tired of sticky grenades. The need for one hit kills is what's wrong with the crucible.

I agree with you, the other part is that bungie could care less about the cheating. Its so bad at times that I just stand around and clap at everyone lol. Crucible is a joke and will be until september

What if I told you they're making things suck in destiny 1 so people actually don't come back to destiny 1? Would I sound crazy?

Mayhem clash is still fun. The trick is not to take it too seriously.

i still play for fun

the whole game is dead, and bungie know it. this AoT is just -blam!-ing glitter and a new reason to milk the -blam!- out of players.

I made a new character and all I do in crucible is run around and hide to troll people. Actually having some fun with it.

After the patch, a ton of people left. Now it's mostly try hards, sweats and streamers. The casual players have moved on to better games, they'll be back for AOT but with nothing new to chase or grind everyone will truly be back for Destiny 2 The queue's are so low that you'll see a lot of the same folks, and been getting more msgs from randoms then ever before, never seen so many trolls on destiny, after 3 yrs I guess it should be expected SBMM is def favored over CBMM cause I've seen a ton of red bars lately which make crucible not as fun it would be nice to play for kicks and not always feel like your busting your butt in a game, mix it up bungie My friends don't get on cause they don't wanna get steam rolled by randoms, which is understandable Does anyone else feel like your teammates are alway the crackheads who don't know what's going on?

According to "Destiny tracker" there's still around 300k play pvp on a daily basis.