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Bearbeitet von TheArtist:
1/7/2017 6:45:17 PM
331
Cozmo. THIS....is why Primaries have to be buffed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPXbK0Mvmk4
This video was posted today by True Vanguard on his YouTube Channel. It shows EVERYTHING that is wrong in The Crucible with regard to the imbalance between player speed, augmented durability skills...and the killing power of primaries.
In the video, you're seeing the lengths that one of the best players in the game has to go through SIMPLY TO STAND HIS GROUND against a Juggernaut/skating/shotgun Warrior. One who is basically just bum-rushing him from mid-range, (when Vanguard makes his effort to take him out) and making no effort to doge his fire.
This video shows why Bungie will NEVER be able to nerf shotguns enough to fix this problem. Not when a Titan skater can charge at you from the entire length of that back courtyard on Bannerfall...and NONE of the game's primaries can do enough damage to kill him before he reaches shotgun range.
[b] Effectively making a Matador 64 into a mid-range weapon that can dominate what are SUPPOSED to be the game's mid-range weapons. [/b]
The game's primaries are so weak, that the only reliable counter seems to be what are basically TWO special weapons: Pop the shield with a No Land Beyond...and then hose the guy down with a side arm. ....and that's once again, in the hands of one of the game's best snipers.
To those who want to say, "Oh but the game will have a CoD TTK."
This video is showing you that the game ALREADY has a CoD TTK...and that shaving a few feet off of Matadors range....or adding a few frames to its handling won't solve this game's fundamental problems.
Edit:
This video linked on another thread addresses the same DPS problem....but from a different perspective...and reaches the same conclusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzjJGE1hkrk&app=desktop
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9 AntwortenBearbeitet von IceIllex: 1/6/2017 2:08:04 PM1: create a primary only playlist (no special or heavy ammo). 2: observe this playlist and see how successful it is. 3: make tweaks to primaries to balance them based off of the results from this research. 4: once balance (among primaries) is found, switch trials and iron banner to be a primary only playlist This would accomplish a couple things. It would get primaries a proper balance amongst each other. It would get rid of the constant complaints of "iron banner and trials are nothing but shotguns!" or "Camping snipers/shotgun rushers are cancer!" Heavy and special weapons would still remain in regular playlists, but having the more rewarding playlist like iron banner and trials be primary only, you prevent the annoyance of being rushed by a Shotgunner or popped by a sniper the second you run around a corner. It would force players to outplay each other using only primaries and their subclass abilities.
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1 AntwortenHow did we go from buffing primaries to nerfing shotguns? If anything jug needs a nerf because I can peck off a shotgun we form that range No problem without the shield
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Fusion rifle if he had clear sight then charging time would not be an issue.
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48 AntwortenI cannot believe what you have just done. This entire post is stupid in my opinion and I wholeheartedly disagree. The video demonstrates the Juggernaut perk in a controlled, play test environment in a private match, with specific goals for specific encounters to showcase specific ideas and outcomes. Your argument is in the first place completely independent of the contents of the video. The contents of the video are in fact quite impractical to base any weapon balance opinion on in the sense that what was shown is quite different to what actually happens in live gameplay. There is no situation in live gameplay where an opponent with the Juggernaut perk active will rush you unimpeded from such a far distance with such reckless abandon whilst your only option is to stand still and wait. Just looking at the comments on the video will give player suggestions that they themselves use against the Juggernaut perk. And above all, you use this video to support your stupid CoD propaganda and your weapon balance ideas. There are so many things wrong with this post. I don't even use Striker, ever since TTK released, so don't think this is some kind of retaliation for something I crutch on. Hopefully this was satire.
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11 AntwortenThis post called me back from exile to once again share the word of the gnasher.[spoiler]Pop[/spoiler] A shotgun's range should extend effectively beyond that of melee, not by inches, but by several feet before the spread of the shot would scatter around an opponent. To decrease it's range would be to mark an already risk based attack strategy as a luck based suicide charge. Evasion, mobility, and distancing yourself beyond that range should be your first priory when countering. Make them miss, and you'll gain an opening to close the gap and use their former strength to your advantage. Or you can yell in panic while spraying your mid range gun in a fruitless attempt to beat a shielded close range attacker before claiming your weapon is too weak and your enemy is too strong. The choice is yours.
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7 AntwortenI know I already responded to this but how would you fix this? Nerf juggernaut and were back to shoulder charge. Nerf shotguns and were back to snipers. Buff guns and all that does is shift the meta. Making APPROPRIATE buffs is what we need, and UNDERSTANDABLE nerfs. Increase the fall off on clever dragon and reduce the base stability to prevent easy sniping, great, but now hand cannons rule...again... And there wouldn't be any way to make hand cannons non dominant, having the fastest ttk across the board is an issue, but nerfing them isn't the solution so what do you do? Make every primary the same ttk and anything with more range will win, so how do you properly balance this? To me bungie has done a pretty good job with balancing considering when ever they go over board they can usually fix it, but the question is now " would making any more changes just break the game again?" And that's something to look into. Although TV had a controlled video it also is unfair to say that in those situations you would always lose, you could throw a grenade, you could MOVE you could try and time it right to win but no matter what you do it will just be complained about by others, no matter what. I can't really say how to do it but I have had buffs they could possibly do in mind in case they do decide to do it. Buff all auto damage by 10% Buff base stability by 10-20 Buff high impact pulses stability by 10 Buff base range by 10 Buff low impact HC range by 10 and base stability by 10, they do less damage over a distance and suffer too much from damage fall off. Buff bonekruscher archetype heavy machine guns base stability by 20, increase magazine size (because dear god is it low) Increase fusion stability by like 5, just a minor buff Make flux grenade kill max armor gaurdians Buff pulse grenade damage to 80 perk burst Make thorns burn un-effected by the burn artifact because smokes "venom" is un effected so why isn't thorns Now nerfs Make amplitude decrease overall stormcaller melee charge damage. That way you either have more range and less damage or less range and stable damage. Reduce base stability on clever dragon and hawksaw archetype pulses by 10 Make damage fall off more steep because you can get far too much range for how low the stat is. Scouts are ok to me, although mida is still pretty annoying, and I know people will just go back to those once pulses are nerfed. Make juggernauts base health 100 instead of 150, it will still be a powerful shield but you won't be unstoppable. Either reduce the tracking or damage on skips, far too powerful for how simple and easy they are to use.
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5 AntwortenYou gotta be careful around everyone these days. I was walking down the street yesterday and a guy walked towards me and pulled out scissors. I'm sooooo happy I was agile enough to reach into my pocket and pull out a rock. Cus if I had pulled out paper, shit, I would have lost.
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8 AntwortenThe video isn't that compelling to me. He allows the Titan to get far to close before starting to shoot with every weapon he displayed. To me the jugg shield works just like it's supposed to, if I get the drop on someone while using the shield i believe I should have the advantage. Whether I use a shotgun or not. I do agree that shotguns range should be reduced, not to the point of futility but Maybe along the lines Battlefield type mechanics use on their shotguns. I would like to see auto rifles a bit more reliable but each game mode has a specific crowd it pleases with the weapon selection, it could be better but it could always be worse.
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1 AntwortenGotta love how EVERY scenario he just stands still. Like "sure you could jump out of that way pretty easily, but I'm just gonna stand in 1 spot and then complain when they kill me"
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27 AntwortenBearbeitet von Cosmic Zaa: 1/5/2017 7:29:06 PMBungie said it themselves that they want a slower pace and more tactical shooter. They dont want fast killing weapons (probably pointing at CoD with that.) Edit: You guys do realise bungie will be putting out a MASSIVE balance patch soon? They said they just need some time to work it out. It wont be filled with nerfs but instead have "changes" They stated this themselves in a past weekly update.
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Bearbeitet von U12070628: 1/8/2017 6:10:07 AMBungie, you know what to do. NERF FUSION RIFLES!
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2 AntwortenTrash video by another trash you tuber
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HoW was the best pvp of destiny IMO. Shotguns had very far range, but primaries were so strong that you could melt them. Snipers didn't flinch, but if they bodyshotted you or if they missed completely, you punished them with a primary. Sniping took skill, and was rewarding, but not forgiving. Blink and weapon handling in general added a skill gap. If player A has faster reaction times than player B then they will win the gunfight 100% of the time. Nowadays, if two people slide around a corner with shotguns, no matter if 1 reacts faster, they will most likely trade due to weapon handling speed. Disagree with me or agree with me, I don't care. These are just my opinions
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17 AntwortenFirst off, people commenting "this is not why TV made the video"...obviously not, but why can't the OP use this video as an example of his point? Obviously it's not typical to stand in one spot in the middle of pvp, but the point does stand. There is a fine line between gameplay/movement tactics and something being underpowered. Sure, if you are able to outmaneuver someone (especially Juggernaut) rushing you with a shotgun, then you could probably come out on top with your primary. But, the point is, you should not [i][b]always[/b][/i] have to put maximum effort into your movement on top of using your primary the whole time when the rusher puts minimal effort into rushing or skating toward you.
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16 AntwortenSo long as we don't touch shotguns specifically you all can do whatever.
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4 AntwortenThe top weapons are 3 shot kill and most weapons are under 1 second ttk and thats not quick enough?
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6 AntwortenI see this video more as an obvious example of how Bungie screwed up class balance. Titans are the fastest class while skating and yet they're also the most armored.
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1 AntwortenSo.... what you're saying is nerf fusions?
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3 AntwortenSaladin's Vigil.
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4 AntwortenCod ttk?? For as much time i have put into cod. The ttk in Destiny is very generous.
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I abandoned crucible except for private games because I hate CoD and that's how people play this game. No thanks
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4 AntwortenBearbeitet von Lady: 1/6/2017 6:34:10 PMOh look another video of a hunter hating on a Titan, nothing new... Because apparently you're supposed to stand still and wonder how to take down the jug shield. *rolls eyes* There's lots of counters, learn them people! But i do agree with primary buff just not having jugg shield as the tester since there's counters
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2 AntwortenI have a suggestion to fix this. Take away Juggernaut and give Titans some stupid op perk other classes have. For example, put amplitude in its place, or skip grenades, or maybe invis. I wouldn't mind smoke either. Hunters and warlocks are already better than titans in terms of perks and abilities. So if you take that perk away from striker, they won't be nearly as competitive as other classes.
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1 AntwortenJust quit crying? Try that perhaps....
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2 AntwortenUnless your 12 and only play for an hour after school and on weekends between soccer games bungie doesn't give a crap about your opinion.
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1 AntwortenShoot a juggernaut from the sides, from above or in the legs. They can't shoot back while using the sprint shield, unlike the example used in your video- most people, when facing another player, don't stand still and just accept fate. They fight. This is a case of a YouTuber facing the same lul in the game we are, getting bored and making a rant for likes and comments to float their channel. But its not a viable argument. Think before you post next time
