In the current meta, high rate of fire low impact weapons are at the top.
Grasp, being the fastest firing pulse archtype, can reliably 3-4 burst an enemy in PVP.
The Hawksaw archtype (Blind Perdition, Outbreak Prime, etc) also reliably 3 bursts an enemy, occasionally taking 4.
The Nirwen's Mercy archtype (Hopscotch Pilgrim, Reflection Sum, NTTE) is a solid 3 burst kill.
The Spare Change archtype (Parthian Shot, Messenger) is also a very reliable 3 burst kill, with the very occasional 2 burst kill.
See the problem here? Almost all archtypes of pulse rifles can 3 burst an enemy. So why even use the high impact low RoF ones when you can do the same thing with a faster firing one? Using a low RoF pulse requires very good thumb work and precision; players that are skilled should be rewarded for using such a slow rate of fire weapon.
On top of that, getting a high impact pulse rifle to drop with a good roll is very rare and hard to come by. For the Parthian Shot or Spare Change to even be worth using, they at least need Counterbalance for their horrible horizontal recoil.
For these reasons, I believe that the high impact archtype of pulse rifles need a buff. They currently do 34 to the head, 23 to the body. A buff to them doing maybe 36-38 damage to the head would significantly help them get a more reliable 2 burst kill.
What do you guys think? I hope to see this change as it would make this class of weapon more usable in PVP.
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von CopicX: 10/15/2016 7:41:31 AMIt's balanced by the fact that the high impact ones like Nirwhen and Spare change can afford alot more bodyshots than headshots. Keep getting bodyshots with a Hawksaw or Grasp and you'll kill slower than a High Impact Auto rifle.
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Bearbeitet von Enochua: 10/15/2016 8:28:31 AMFirst let me start off by saying that I use the spare change.25, and Parthian Shot. as my go to guns in crucible and then Nirwen's Mercy, Hopscotch Pilgrim as a very close second choice. the only real way to balance this archetype is to combine the Nirwen's Mercy, Hopscotch Pilgrim archetype with spare change.25, Parthian Shot archetype. making it one archetype with rate of fire of the Nirwen's Mercy, Hopscotch Pilgrim and making it with the impact of the spare change.25, Parthian Shot. while leaving all other stats (stability, range) of each gun the same as they are now. buffing just the base damage of the low rate of fire pulses would take away from the skill that is needed to make these guns viable and would make them over powered.
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I miss to the good ole 42s to the head...
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1 AntwortenAuto Rifles in the archetype of SUROS Regime needs to be buffed.
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Watch coolguys video on pulse rifle range. Fast RoF pulses are broken and his video proves it.
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I thought I still had my Spare Change with headseeker and glass half full but I guess I dismantled it. :(
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Msg HardEiqht need one more
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Say nerf the fast rof pulse rifles and scouts a little bit like 5 to 7 percent and keep hand cannons, fast rof autos the same. Than buff slow rof a little bit like 2 to 3 percent and the rest of the primaries by like 5 to 6 percent
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Missed the greatest mac of all. CLEVER DRAGON.
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1 AntwortenHigh impact autos are in a very similar state, they could use some help as well.
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I have 2 parthians with amazing roles its not as hard to come by as you may think
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Messenger anyone?
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Buff High Impact everything.
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2 AntwortenLow impact pulse rifles need to go. They have little to no damage drop off, are god at all ranges, and everyone and their -blam!-ing mother over uses them because of how good they are. Same with high impact shotguns. Instead of nerfing shotguns themselves nerf the high impact ones and leave the low impact and high fire rate alone. Suros type of autos need a another 3-6% buff. Bloom needs to go away on fast firing hand cannons, snipers need their bodyshot reduced (should have been like this in the first place not precision nerf)
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5 AntwortenI somewhat disagree, I think Bungie did a fine job with pulse rifles. [b]Grasp of Malok[/b] = 23 to head 16 to body = 3 headshots to kill 23*9 = 207 = kill (23*6) + (16*3) = 186 = not a kill Rewards precision with lower ttk. [b]Hawksaw[/b] = 25 to head 17 to body = 2 headshots 1 body shot kill. (25*6) + (17*3) = 201 = kill (25*3) + (17*6) = 177 = not a kill Rewards precision but leniency with the body shot makes ttk higher. [b]Hopscoth Pilgrim[/b] = 30 to head, 20 to body = 1 headshot 2 body shot kill. (30*3) + (20*6) = 210 = kill (20*9) = 180 = not a kill. Leniency for not needing as many precision increases ttk. [b]Spare Change .25[/b] = 34 to head, 23 to body = 3 body shot kill (23*9) = 207 = kill Leniency because there's no precision shots needed increases ttk. I think that's a nice little pattern, but let's go farther... A lightning grenade does 122 damage Let's look at damage needed with one burst in conjunction with a lightning grenade to kill: 122 + (23*3) = 191 = Grasp is not a reliable one burst kill for high armour 122 + (25*3) = 197 = Hawksaw is not a reliable one burst kill for high armour 122 + 30 + 30 + 20 = 202 = Hopscotch can one shot after a lightning grenade with only two precision from the burst landing 122 + 34 + 23 + 23 = 202 = Spare Change .25 can one shot after lightning grenade with only one precision from the burst landing. Throwing knife does 142 damage Let's look at body shot damage in conjunction with throwing knives. 142 + (16*3) = 190 = Grasp is not a reliable kill for high armour. 142 + (17*3) = 193 = Hawksaw is not a reliable kill for high armour 142 + (20*3) = 202 = Hopscotch is a reliable body shot kill 142 + (23*3) = 211 = Spare Change is a reliable body shot kill Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a charged warlock melee is 122 as well. So look at the lightning grenade numbers for that. Higher impact archetypes go in conjuction with your subclass abilities easier. It's also more lenient with how many precision shots you need to kill. That's the trade off for pure gun ttk. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point and see where you're coming from. I just want to put, what I think, Bungie's train of thought was when making pulse rifles. In my opinion I think you got it right with the recoil direction. It needs to be fixed for the higher impact, so counterbalance is not needed. The damage however is fine. An increase in ADS/weapon handling would be good too, so the pairing with sublass abilities is more noticeable.
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I have noticed a lot of grasp/ dragons going around lately. Tonight I infuse my Big Red for the raid... Hopefully it represents like the days of old!
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I got a Parthian shot that shoots like a laser pretty early on in ROI. Deleted it as soon as I got my Clever Dragon.
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The problem with low rate of fire is their time to kill it is way to high first them to compete with things like grasp, tlw, doctrine and all the 3 shot hand cannons.
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1 AntwortenMy parthian shot has an almost max stability roll, and that thing 2 bursts without a problem.
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Bearbeitet von Tim vdB3: 10/14/2016 7:28:52 PMFor the second time, it's the lack of damage dropoff that is the problem. Fix that and other archetype weapons should be more viable. Now it's just getting crossmapped by the hacksaw or clever dragon.
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5 AntwortenWell when a pulse rifle can kill with 12 rounds at range but an auto rifle needs to be close and takes practically the whole magazine and more. Thats a problem, id say nerf all pulse rifles into the ground and buff autos.
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I have a high stability Parthian Shot, I think it's called?, and I pair it with gunslingers stability buff and I just melt people.
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2 AntwortenThe problem is not the guns. It never has been, Bungie messed up with the set health each player has. A increase to health would allow Bungie more flexibility in weapon kill times. It would allow for a buff to higher impact lower rate of fire guns.
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3 AntwortenOr you could just get better. Or use another pulse rifle.
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They just need to have enough impact to reliably 2 burst even high armor guardians or they're simply useless.
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Agreed. The LRoF/High Impact PRs are just pointless in Crucible.