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Bearbeitet von Skyrender6: 8/20/2016 2:44:07 PM
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How to properly teach raiding.

There have been too many instances where I have joined raid groups where other fireteam members have railed on players who weren't 100% familiar with the mechanics of any given fight, and I wanted to submit this post to share with you all some ways that we can make raiding a better experience for all players involved regardless of skill level. I want you all to know that you can invite a novice guardian to a raid and still beat it easily as long as you properly teach him or her. It's important to understand that, however well intentioned you may be when dealing with inexperienced players, you may not be aware that your instructions can be vague, misleading, or inappropriate for the player you are trying to teach. So here are my own tips: [b]1. Teach to the lore.[/b] These raids have some wacky mechanics to be sure. But by explaining what the mechanics have to do with the lore of the game, you are framing a proper context and giving a purpose to the fight. Always explain the objective first (for example: "we have to help the taken guardian find his or her way back to our dimension by creating a pathway to the deathsinger 's brand") so that the fight feels less gimmicky and, in turn, more sensible. [b]2. Understand that there are strategies within strategies--do not overlook any nuance.[/b] It is easy to overlook a small step in raiding that can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe because we don't properly assess what is going wrong. There are many nuanced strategies in each raid that can make things a lot easier for all members of a team, and if you are teaching how to raid you need to be familiar with at least most of them. For example, having two hunters on the first and third plates during the Oryx fight will improve performance because they can both tether the middle lane after killing their ogres, trapping the light eater knights and instantly and solving the problem of keeping the Knights away from the bombs. Another example would be the first gaze holder during the Golgoroth fight. He or she can use a machine gun to shoot the first bubble down, switch to primary, and take the ogres gaze, making the job much easier for the rest of the team. [b]3. Give a guided tour of all routes for each player before the fight begins.[/b] Don't just tell players where to go, show them where to go. And don't just show them, show them how by literally having them run beside you as you demonstrate movement routes throughout a fight. Show them what to shoot and what not to shoot, and when. Tell them, for instance, what they are and are not responsible for. I can't stress that last part enough, because many players die due to burdening themselves with too many unnecessary tasks. A plate holder doesn't need to shoot acolytes--he or she only needs to kill the ogre, and then kill their knight. A aura holder doesn't need to shoot the Warpriest, only the acolytes in 7 to 9 second intervals. Any teacher who properly addresses this in a fight will find that any novice player can hold their own. [b]4. Create a communication code.[/b] You should establish from the very beginning what everyone should say, and when. It's a given that communication is important, but too much talking over the mic will almost always cause a wipe. Be sure that you establish what everyone should say and when. Keeping it simple, like saying "runner up", "1 up", "2 up", "3 up", "I have the orb", "knight 4 down", "vessel down", "Oryx chest", "Oryx slamming", "run to bombs", "detonate in 3, 2, 1" will make the fight a lot easier. And notice that what I just wrote is basically the entirety of a whole round against Oryx. You literally do not have to say more than 30 words to defeat Oryx on hard mode! Think of it another way--which is the better statement: "I'm taken, someone needs to take my plate", or "Plate 3 taken, middle replace plate 3"? The second line keeps confusion to a minimum and will save you a lot of time and effort. Bad communication is just as bad as no communication, remember that! [b]5. If you are imposing weapon and high light requirements, you're already doing it wrong.[/b] Let me be clear: you do NOT need a Touch of Malice to beat Oryx. You never needed a Gjallarhorn to beat Crota. You don't need a Black Spindle to finish Golgoroth. And you DEFINITELY do not need 335 light to finish a raid. Yes, these things make the fight easier. But a well taught team will ALWAYS perform just as well if not better than a team with maxed gear and specs. It's time to let that go. If you are the expert raider that you think you are, then you need to stop ignoring players who have the potential to be good raiders but can't because they don't have a weapon that you like! Remember, all of us had to beat the raid at least once without the Touch of Malice, right? So trust in the potential of a player who is willing to learn! [b]6. Be aware of the difference between an inexperienced player and a "noob".[/b] Inexperienced players are those who are willing to learn, while "noobs" are immature, hardheaded players who do not listen to what is being taught to them. Be sure that, when creating a team of novice guardians, that you want players that are willing to follow orders and trust in their leader. When you have a team of mature guardians, you will know that the fight can be won, regardless of how much experience they have. [b]7. Be kind![/b] It's amazing to me how often kindness is an overlooked quality among many guardians. This is exactly why I prefer to play with newer players over seasoned ones, because seasoned players are too often jaded by their experiences and less willing to be patient and kind to others. If a new player fails at his or her job, be nice about it! Refer to my second step--assess and reteach, and do it nicely! When you are mean to a guardian you are making that guardian worry not only about the fight, but about being insulted by you, which will only make his or her performance worse. I have been in many teams of "seasoned" players who failed, and I have been in many teams of "novice" players who have succeeded, all for this very reason! So that's it for me, for now at least. I just felt that this is important because I feel terrible whenever I join teams where people blame others for failing. There's already a lot of toxicity in Destiny, so help it be a better game by being a better guardian for yourself and others! -Skyrender6 POST EDIT: The positive response to this discussion really shows that we've got a great community here, even if it doesn't always show. Lord knows that I've been impatient, but it's never too late to rethink what your role is in a game like this and to pay kindness forward. Because at the end of the day, you're playing with five other human beings at the other end of that connection. And they may be strangers to you, but so are you to them! Thank you all for your honest responses, and that includes those who disagree with my points as well, because your honesty is key in understanding why the conflict exists in the first place. Bungie, we need to talk more about this because I just know that your game will be an even greater success if you take an active role in teaching raid etiquette and inclusionary tactics!
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  • These noobs need to learn how to YouTube, it's totally not like youtubers and twitch streamers don't post them. their is a video on the ENTIRE kings fall how to do, literally 2 weeks after ttk dropped. It's not hard to jump on a damn platform people.... Watch a damn video and "git Gud" If u can't get it, maybe patrol is more ur pace or skill level, watever u want to call it

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  • Bearbeitet von Moxxis Playtoy: 8/19/2016 9:49:13 PM
    Looking to 3 man patrol on moon. Must have all blue equipped. Moon is only up for a limited time. Looking to explore it. [i]If we were still in Beta LFG be like.[/i]

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  • Are you trying to teacher other people how to teach your way? Why not just go out and be a good teacher yourself?

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    2 Antworten
    • People say the lore when teaching? Lol. I give brief details and keep running the raid/boss however many times we need to. Hopefully improving each time

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      • Good points I think though part of the problem is that some people aren't willing to admit they don't know the mechanics when some people ask if everyone is familiar. I've played with enough people to know that most are willing to point things out, but people should just over communicate instead of under...especially relic runners not saying they have the orb and the plate person dies. Can't help people that are just asses or mean to other people...

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      • Great article! Wish more destiny players thought the way you do. I have never done a raid (not enough of my friends play) but I've been invited to multiple raids by people looking to fill a group. I tell them right off the bat that I havent raided and thats the end of the conversation. I think a lot of people that dont have enough friends to raid stay away from joining random groups just to avoid the people you talk about.

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      • Bump

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      • I applaud you good sir.

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      • What I generally do is describe what to do, then liken their role to the other members of the team, and make sure they know who the members of the team are. That way they can fit in their role more easily if they have something to relate to- gives it more of a script

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      • GTFO skrubs* Fixed it

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      • if only more raid teams were like this. i hardly do raids any more simply as i have a lack of raid teams to actually join. most of them are practicaly cocky 335 cruci hunters at this point. im never getting that hard mode done on my triumphs. i still remember the days when they were all but lowly level tens.

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      • good on you m8 i was very lucky and met a really good group of lads online very patient and calm made it so easy for us cleared entire raid in good time need more people like you and less like your last commenter i was taught theres no i in team and they should remember that thx again.

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      • Great post. Sure would make raiding a whole lot more enjoyable. Thanks

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      • Well put. My normal group often has to pick up one or two random players to raid. Much of the time we find people that have never completed it or had done different methods than ours. I can't even count how many people my group has helped learn some of the raid mechanics. Though we never used the lore section you spoke of.

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      • My main raiding issue is that I don't have a regular clan to "raid" with. I've been invited several times to raid, but never with the same group. Yet what I've found is that teams raid differently using different strategies. I've gotten complaints that I wasn't doing it right yet I'm doing the task based on how I completed it previously. Doing the raid is not at all difficult especially since the majority of players are high light levels. The TTK raid is old yet certain player treat it as if it's some new accomplishment. Most are cool, yet there are some toxic raiders even thought they may have 50+ raid completions. If you have that much experience become a Sherpa to help others get better.

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        • #6 is the best advice, some people you simply can't teach because they aren't willing to learn. This isn't the school system where it's no kid left behind, if you dont wanna learn the raid....peace

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        • Did my first ever raid last week and it was the killing oryx bit. Wow it was confusing, but funny as hell. Group I had never met before simply said ok and explained what to do (we died lots, but got it in end). Good bunch of lads tbh, wasn't easy as I'm partially deaf and at one point voice simply broke mid fight (we got split randomly into several voice groups) was funny as hell, as I didn't jump on my pillar as they has told me "only jump on if we say 1 is on, or we wipe" So there I am yelling down mic "is 1 on" getting no reply, while in two other groups my friends are yelling " get on the bloody pillar". We wiped, then voice fixed and we carried on after a good giggle. :). Then while deleting my badger scout rifle, the bloody game deleted my new raid one instead. But I had a good laugh.

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        • Thanks for taking the time to write this. I've missed some game content because too shy or self conscious to ask to join or for help (gotten better about it though). Hoping you have a great day

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        • Once you said teach the lore, I stopped reading right there... you expect me to get someone from lfg and teach them the lore before a raid...? Yea right... Then after all the time of teaching them they don't care. I used to be a sherpa but I kinda don't consider me one anymore. I've ran into so many fuking stupid people on lfg. Before every part of the raid I say " does anyone not know what to do?" And guess what? They stay silent. Then when we are half way into a boss they fuk up. We wipe. Then I said once again " does anyone not know what they are doing... (silent) guys are you serious your holding up the raid? I'm not gonna fuking kick you if you don't know what to do? Say so, so I can teach you and get on with the fuking raid?... That's why I don't like teaching anyone anymore cause they act like they can just free ball it cause they soloed something they think is hard in the game... Just like this guy a month ago: get on lfg and I get a team together. And this guy joins that's like 319 light and he says I've never done the raid but I've soloed PoE, and I say ok poe isn't hard but why are you trying hard first I suggest you do norm.. the kid says it's ok I'm a good player I've soloed the game.. I'm like what ever. So we get to warpriest and this kid is on his warlock and every time I said wipe, he would die and then use his super (res) I'm like ok that was a -blam!-ing waste? So we wipe again and I see him go to the big black orb to wipe and he uses his res and throws a grenade and wipes. I'm like: dude why do you keep wasting your super you can barley stay alive and I need you to help the team? He says, ok I'll switch to storm caller. And I say ok that's not what I said to do, I need you to save your super for if you die. Ok I'll stay on storm and I won't die. 2 mins he dies. I'm like see this is my point right there... then we get to gorgoroth I tell him about unstable light, he's like ok. He kills the team twice with it. Then we get to daughters and I tell him several times about plates and counterclockwise and what not, and he still just keeps fuking it up, getting on the plate to early? Slamming the wrong wizard? Can't understand counterclockwise... getting on fourth plate... My point is I take out my time out of my day to try and teach numerous people to do the raid when they still won't listen? And what do I get? Nothing... literally nothing... The only thing I like to help people with is black spindle or calcified fragments and that's only cause I remember where they all are by heart.. sad right? Sorry, but that's my rant... long.

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          • Lol. Who still raids anymore

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            • Yeah I should so have to teach some kid the raid, because he is too impatient to go learn about it before jumping right in. People these days always want shit the easy way. Want to know how I learned. I read a walk through with a diagram explaining it, than watched three different YouTube's than read one more completely different walk through. Want to only how many questions I asked my first raid? Answer is zero.

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            • Simply way to teach people how to raid... Me - "hey you have YouTube right?" Person - "yes" Me - "go watch (invert raid here) videos until you understand how to run it. From there message me and I'll run you through. Person - "ok. Great idea thanks"

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            • Back in WoW everyone did their homework ahead of time and looked up boss mechanics (if they weren't going in blind) in order to successfully not waste people's time. In Destiny there are a great amount of people that refuse or think they're too pretty to spend the 5 minutes to read about a boss fight. In WoW, everyone had their own way of taking down a boss but everyone respected and didn't try to argue the mechanics, in Destiny you have people that do stupid crap like try to walk the explosion to Golgoroth even though that's kind of stupid and has a chance of blocking the shots for your raid members.

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              • One thing you forgot, Bungie's fubarred networking mechanics. Glitches every 3 to 5 seconds or so.

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              • You probably have good tips but I don't feel like reading but for me how hard is it to do trial by fire deal. Learn as you go.

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              • 3 is so true. I remember doing the warpriest a first time . we managed it fairly quickly. It was only after doing warpriest a few times did i realise when i have the aura i dont need to shoot the boss. I was there doing both! Haha.

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              Es ist dir nicht gestattet, diesen Inhalt zu sehen.
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