Card based (priority) matchmaking is not working it should. At least when compare that to the statements Bungie has made about crucible in general and their overall philosophy towards PVP.
I should have known people here don't read well, so Im going to move this from the bottom to the top as my "mission statement" or TLDR.
[b]I'd much rather play 8 or 9 straight sweaty matches against people within 100ELO of me instead of playing 3 easy matches then running into a team who hasn't lost a game in 2 weeks. That's not fun.[/b]
Let's give up this card based matchmaking. It's creating ridiculously unfun situations. Leave it at skill. Or, kick me to orbit and tell me to requeue in a few minutes. Here's a perfect example of unfun:
Our ELO vs Theirs
Game 1: 1340 - 1800 (LOL RIP)
Start new Card
Game 1: 1340 - 1200 Eh, too far in our favor
Game 2: 1342 - 1300 Good
Game 3: 1342 - 1318 Good
Game 4: 1342 - 1719 Um?
Game 5: 1342 : 1853 Really?
Game 6: 1342 - 1492 Howd this get here? (Better, was a fun, sweaty match)
Game 7: 1342 - 1922 LOL RLY?
If you think Trials is just about getting gud, you've missed the mark. Trials should be built to bring people together of like skill levels and abilities throughout the card. That way as you start to win, your ELO will continue to rise. As it rises, each card will be set against harder opponents. At some point, you will cap out but you will continue to play against people who are AROUND your skill level, not in another galaxy.
More Data (I'm sure most of you have stopped reading, if not, congrats - I respect you)
Below me someone mentioned that "Us 1700 don't complain" and you probably don't have a reason to. At 1700, you sit between the top 4000 and 7000 in the world (On XBL at least). You are in the top 1% (1.5% to be precise) Based on how the matchmaking is now, your chances of matching against someone at or below your skill level is FAR lower than someone who is lower than you.
Examples:
I pulled someone who was at the bottom of the 1700 ELO train and looked at their past 9 games:
Them vs Others:
1780 - 1208
1780 - 1092
1780 - 1469
1780 - 1431
1780 - 1613
1780 - 1615
1780 - 1961
1780 - 1435
1780 - 1688
Only once did they play someone within +-100 and beyond that, they played a team that was considerably better. That's not efficient or well designed code. I wish I had access to the DB information as I'm very confident that this is played out time and time again. I would wager a lot that these scenarios are playing out far more frequently than it should because the game gives up on trying to find players around you and prioritizes on the card instead of skill.
In regular crucible, it should be 100% connection based - I think the outcry for this has been consistent. In Trials, dare I say it, but I'd rather play people right around my skill than perfect connections. I'd give up a little connection quality to know the fight was fair and fun. No one wants to constantly be matched up against the upper 1% (Just the other day, matched against someone who was top 300 in world -.-) I just want to fight people who are near my skill level. Halo 3 for all that was wrong, did this rather well. My matches from rank 45-50 were always sweaty and while we would get an occasional god team to play against, the matches were far more consistently close than they were blow outs.
Whoever made the decision about card based really missed the mark and hasn't been checking the data.
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2 AntwortenYear one trials matchmaking should come back. Along with year one crucible matchmaking settings. Choosing skill over connection in a peer to peer based connection is literally the dumbest shit. Every other AAA game has dedicated severs. This is ancient technology.
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1 Antwortenthe 1 game mode we want sbmm in and theyre like, "no do it by wins"
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You want Bungie to listen to you? If your answer is yes then don't touch ToO if too many ppl do it Bungie will eventually tweak it.
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2 AntwortenTrials is the end game activity for pvp players like the raid is for pve players. COMPETITIVE ENDGAME PVP! -blam!-ing crybabies. [spoiler]CRY MORE[/spoiler]
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There can be some variables that go with it like how good you did the game before how high your Elo is and your KD and their Elo and KD and it usually for the most part does a pretty good job of evening things out and if there is a team that is better than your team then step up your game with more call outs and better plays to increase your chances but when it's like a 1900 Elo then that's a little to much (RIP your mercy XD)
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von SILVERF0XX: 8/14/2016 7:18:55 AMPlayed a game for the lighthouse Based on elo, we had less than a 10 percent chance to win... No worries, that was our mercy. Very next game... They had above 2.5kds and elo rankings gave us a 2.68 percent chance of winning.... WHY EVEN MATCH US UP!! http://guardian.gg/en/pgcr/5348786855
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ELO (Every losers obsession) isn't actually in the game. It is made/calculated by guardian.gg
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47 AntwortenBearbeitet von FCN: 8/13/2016 11:27:18 PMOr you could just git gud, I normally don't say this but learn to play tbh, We 1700 elos don't go running to the forums when we match 2500's 3 times in a row do we (if someone has please point it out but last i checked no one has) , we 1700s learn to get better to do well against these super sweaty try hards, When trials was released they said it was for the elite , (top 1% tbh) Why do you feel entitled to easy matches to get to flawless, why do you PvE scrubs think you can just get what you want, sorry you can't cheese pvp for wins and your not really good at the game at all which trials is meant to be sweaty and try hardy, those who win those deserve rewards not the ones like you that complain on the forums and demand easier games. *Someone downvoted me for what reason? its not a I dislike button its a "This is a invalid/off topic post", just because your trash and have the IQ of a literal blobfish doesn't mean you can press the dislike button, we get it you can use your fingers to press the dislike button unlike playing the game with thumbs you don't have For reference this is a blob fish http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/13-of-the-ugliest-animals-on-the-planet/blobfish *
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7 AntwortenCan someone explain to me what the heck ELO is?
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1 AntwortenCard based mm? I didn't even know that's how it was done. All I know, is at times I'm playing people that are crushing me, other times, not so much.
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9 AntwortenUnpopular opinion: It's fine. Back in HoW, getting to the Lighthouse was almost purely based on luck for most players, but with the way matchmaking is now, it's based on how skilled you are. Wins 7-9 are going to be hard. But the rewards need to be increased [i]a lot[/i] for those who go flawless. One emblem and one random weapon/armor piece with a different coat of paint is honestly really disappointing. Some skilled teams like to "farm" wins 1-5 to raise ELO, and I believe that's a separate issue. Maybe a punishment for deleting a few scorecards without any losses on them.
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5 Antwortenyou do realize no matter what MM is in place, there is going to be some group complaining about it.... and that group is the losers bracket
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No, at least for me Year 1 = 1 Flawless run Year 2 = 10+ Flawless runs
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Great post! Trials mm is broken I agree and what you have described has happened to us a lot! I doubt they will ever change it though
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Bearbeitet von Mr Fats: 8/14/2016 10:07:39 AMMan you make it look like if people with a 1700+ ELO have an easier time getting to the LH. I mean, I rather play with a 1700+ ELO guy than a 900 ELO guy but that doesnt mean it is easy for them, for instance, I had a look at the lower 1780 ELO guy in guardian.gg. This guy had an elo of 1792 when he started, his teammates where around 1298 and 1493. Total combined ELO 1528. 1st 1528 vs 1000 - Victory 2nd 1528 vs 1129 - Victory 3rd 1528 vs 1284 - Victory 4th 1528 vs 1603 - Loss 5th 1528 vs 1150 - Victory 6th 1528 vs 1587 - Loss 7th 1528 vs 1532 - Loss Previous week - Team ELO 1380 1st 1380 vs 1547 - Loss 2nd 1380 vs 960 - Victory 3rd 1380 vs 1700 - Loss No more games Previous 3 weeks never made it to the lighthouse either. Now a guy with a 2180 ELO, fireteam ELO 1804 1st 1804 vs 1382 - Loss 2nd 1804 vs 1704 - Victory 3rd 1804 vs 1141 - Victory 4th 1804 vs 1327 - Victory 5th 1804 vs 870 - Victory 6th 1804 vs 1773 - Loss 7th 1804 vs 1029 - Victory 8th and 9th where just to complete card. No LH for this guy either Notice how his loss were against lower ELO teams, in some cases several hundred ELOs below. This made it to the LH on the previous week once after 5 attempts. Previous week didnt make it as far as I can see or at least he lost 30% of his games. With this what I am trying to say is that sure, some people get lucky and paired up against worse teams and end up making to the LH (myself included ;)) but that doesnt happen 100% of the time, in fact, a lower ELO team doesnt necessarily mean an easy win (same as a lower KD team). And those guys with a high ELO also have trouble doing trials run. Sure it is easier for them to complete the LH passage than for a much lower ELO but that's simply because they are generally better players, and that's fine. Competing against these players is hard, specially if they are constantly playing together but that's what trials is all about, you can get paired up against ANY player, and based on those examples I showed you there is very little difference in regards who you get matched up against between a high ELO and a lower one. In fact, the HIGH ELO team seemed to have more of a challenge during their run than the lower one... that's just my opinion. The reason why people always vote possitive on threads like this is because they want to make it to the LH and introducing CBMM will make things easier for them, well, probably but in all fairness it will take the challenge away, I think.
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Bearbeitet von UFSman: 8/14/2016 9:16:20 AMHow do you want it done? Card base is the only way to make it fair yes sometimes it matches you with people who have bad conection so why not add a conection filter to the matchmaking the problem with too only 5% of player base plays it it already has a small pool to match make from if we add more filters it may take longer to match make you with another team if we do it on wins it's very quick. The problem is that's not the only thing bungie has on match making it'll match with same or more wins so sometimes you get put with 9 when you have 7 wins this is so to make the matchmaking quicker after all we can't just make a 9 to wait around just to wait for another 9 can we? That's bungie logic for you.
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4 AntwortenBearbeitet von SuggestedPigeon: 8/14/2016 2:21:42 AMScorecard based matchmaking ruined trials we can at least agree on that. But any kind of skill based matchmaking will only make things worse as when you face players of your skill it essentially becomes a 50/50 coin toss. Go get a coin and do this: 1. Get heads your first time. You now have three wins. 2. Now get heads six more times. You are allowed one tails. Pretty unlikely right? Now if the lighthouse requirements were changed to you just need 9 wins before three losses it would be manageable while still requiring you to beat the odds. But if it's seven wins before two losses you're in for a rough time. The best way by far is still to go back to year one settings: pure connection. Then in rise of iron make the lighthouse weapons have good pve/pvp crossover instead of passive last resort and a black skin because we need pve players to care about trials again. In connection based matchmaking you face the entire destiny community that is playing trials as long as you have a good connection. You may get stomped in game one, you may get seven games of scrubs. More likely you'll get a lot of in between. Going flawless meant you were better than the community and it was challenge enough. If the hardcore want sweats and tourneys then add custom games. If they want to add scorecard based matchmaking past 9-0 for scarab heart or whatever then fine. But if trials is to survive at all you need players to think they have a real shot at going to the lighthouse. And when many players feel like they have to win the lottery or pay some loser on twitch to get to the lighthouse many will simply not play Trials.
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Bearbeitet von Flubble99: 8/14/2016 1:55:40 AMI've only been to the lighthouse once, and that is because every run I get curb stomped by some 2000 elo or so people. It is ridiculous! One time I was on 5 wins on the card, and then we lost to them, and they had gone flawless! It (win based match making) doesn't even do it's job, but it means I can never have fun doing trials with my friends...
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I agree 100 percent with you man! Nice job
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Trials is a poor designed game mode..
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2 AntwortenTrials is broken and not just the match making!!!
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1 AntwortenBump Card based MM is good in concept, but the results speak for themselves. Lighthouse matches should [b]not[/b] be swayed by red bars.
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Bump. It only makes trials difficult for average, or lower, players.
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3 AntwortenI agree. Ive been flaw 5 times only, yet im really good, its difficult just having fun or trying to go flaw and getting stomped by sweaties with 2.0 kd in your first game
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13 AntwortenThis is the reason only 5% or less of the community participates in trials on a frequent basis. It's just not fun unless you're in the top 10%