When I say this, I mean that they are by far and away the worst weapon class in Destiny. Period. They are outclassed by auto rifles in close range most of the time and they are more often than not destroyed by pulse rifles and scout rifles in both mid and long ranges. In addition to this, even if you have the chance to outgun some of these weapons, your hand cannon might not even hit the target due to the baffling accuracy system currently used for hand cannons, thus causing you to die. Also, the fact that the First Curse and other hand cannons in that archetype are completely useless in PvP. Basically everything has a faster time to kill than it, meaning that using one in PvP is one of the worst handicaps in the game at the moment.
I've been using hand cannons since early Year 1, so I believe that I'm in a decent spot to criticize them, and the way they preform now is just pitiful. Pretty much all primaries feel pitiful now, but hand cannons specifically. Their lack of range and consistency , in addition to their generally poor stability, make them a chore to use in PvP. They may have been better if this patch hadn't steepened the damage drop-off on them, but they still wouldn't be as good as they should.
I have two proposed solutions to this problem. The first is to change what the weapon is meant to do. Obviously, Bungie has a difficult time properly balancing these weapons around being close to medium range weapons without killing them, so making them more of a universally range weapon. This would be achieved by giving them the same drop off distance as pulse rifles, so they could compete in that same range without outclassing scout rifles in the long ranges. The balancing factor in this is that the inaccuracy would be slightly increased to somewhere between the April update and the June update. This keeps it from being too obnoxious at the longer ranges while still allowing them to challenge longer ranged weapons.
The other option is to properly make them close to medium range weapons. This would be achieved by increasing the damage drop off range to somewhere between the April update and June update and entirely removing the inaccuracy mechanic on the weapons. This would make them consistent in the ranges that they are supposed to be, while letting the drop off keep them in check at longer ranges.
Be sure to up-vote this and vote in the polls to make sure that the Bungie team sees this if you think either of my ideas are good. If you don't, be sure to let me know what you think is a good idea for them.
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Sometimes people complain about a weapon class like hand canons for example but you forget that there are different versions like the hawkmoon type and eyesaluna (sorry i dont know how to spell it) and if you get certain rolls you can that version of hand canons to be powerful. (I had a good train of thought but i forget stuff easily so if you see what i was trying to say in this and agree thanks but majority of yall with probably not understand where i was going with this)
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3 AntwortenI dunno. I mean, the guys that killed me with a hand cannon were pretty dead on. Didn't seem to be any issues.
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They are relevant again. I won't say OP because they are fair, but I get killed by them now, so. People seem to be content. But I can also beat them too if I play it right.
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Problem with hand cannons: Bungie states they should be viable at close range, but the issues with that are 1) ttk usually isn't fast enough to stop shotguns 2) ttk isn't faster than pulse, auto, or scout rifles 3) a skilled sniper can easily kill a hc user in optimal hc range. In short, hand cannons generally put its users at a disadvantage. I still use them. Sometimes I do well with them. I still shoot blanks frequently and I still get outgunned regularly by a myriad of other weapons. It's 3 headshots, otherwise you die.
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7 AntwortenIgnore the idiots who don't know what they are talking about. I agree hand cannons need to be reworked as they require the most skill to use. Dmg wise l, hand cannons are fine where they are they at. The thing ur talking about that plagues hand cannon accuracy is the bloom/cone effect. This mechanic was introduced in taken king and with it came the phenomenon known as ghost bullets. I've been preaching this for months for bungie to remove this mechanic. They should still keep the dmg falloff and dmg numbers currently. Having dmg falloff is what keeps weapons in the intended range, not shots being completely missed. Missed shots with a hand cannon lead to lost gunfights. People who think this will cause a year 1 meta are idiots. If anything it rewards players for using the highest skill weapon in the game. People preach variety but in a game like this, to be competitive, u make the hardest to use guns top tier, not doctrine. I'm glad they nerfed doctrine. The gun took no skill. Anyways the way to fix hand cannons would be to remove the bloom/cone effect. Making them more universally with range should be a thing but the biggest thing hand cannons need is this mechanic removed.
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There's not enough good magnums
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Try eyasluna, lord high fixer, devil you know, and of course tlw. They all wreck in pvp.....in their intended range.
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I usually only use HC to finish Shaxx's bounties and have for a while. Last week and last night I was able to get 10+ kills for the bounty in one game. I have a good rolled eyesluna which I am sure makes a difference but a month ago with the same weapon I could barely get 4 kills in a game.
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4 AntwortenWhat hand cannons have you been using? They are perfectly fine now. I dont wont a year one meta.
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I would like to see something from bungie which displays the number of average kills per match versus all other weapons. I get killed Maybe once per match by a hand cannon. So whether or not the current hand cannon meta is appropriate, it is still lacking compared to other weapon types. They need a buff to be PVP relevant. Now PVE, I use my lord high fixxer with grenedier with great success.
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Fix the accuracy and greatly increase bullet damage drop off. Fatebringer felt ok last night in the vault. Much better than post ttk. But still needs some work. Promote close range combat!!!
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2 AntwortenAdapt to the situation.
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Hans cannons cause flinch at close to mid range, situational but balanced
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2 AntwortenIt is sick. It's really sad that the only GEneral purpose" hand cannon that is marginally effective is Hawkmoon, and that is only due to the LitC perks. God, I miss my year one TDYK. Wrecked for days.
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8 AntwortenYour argument is invalid The Last Word
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von ImmortaI Winter: 6/27/2016 3:50:57 PMBungie only "FIXES" things that are TOO powerful, TOO annoying, and/or are USED TOO often. Fixing Handcannons because they stink as a whole, isn't gonna happen. Perhaps, if the bulk of the community stopped using them, Bungie might notice and wonder... Frankly, I'd like the Handcannons to go back to where they were before they were nerfed to shit in year 1. I loved the last word, shotgun setup. But not anymore. Now, I run Universal Remote and Shotgun/sniper. TLW, seems to be missing shots, even at point blank range. As do many of the other handcannons I played around with this weekend.....That said, HIGH AIM ASSIST seems to be the way to go.
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1 AntwortenThey were fine in Year 1. Thorn and TLW were the only HC that needed nerfed.The fact that we can't fire HC at their intended fire rate without missing every shot is ridiculous. Pacing your shots just gets you killed faster.
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I'm not really sure where you're getting this from. Exotic hand cannons, sure. They are out gunned some times. Thorn and The Last Word were ruined. Thorn is barely exotic any more. And The Last Word, a gun made to hip fire, is now only usable while ADS. Complete nonsense. But look at the legendary hand cannons. If you roll LiTC you can double tap almost anyone. The problem isn't that they aren't usable. The problem is the one that "you" want to use isn't usable. Personally, I think they should return all the guns and perks back to the way they were. The TTK of certain weapons very clearly out classes others. And rather them pushing the good ones down that scale, they should lift the others up. In any event. You're wrong. The end.
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2 AntwortenI feel like Hand Cannons got nerfed to the ground because year 1 supported them so much. The range on a Hand Cannon was crazy and to say that is was abnormal is an understatement. I feel like maybe they will fix them and make thwm more reliable on close range but thwy should not be able to do what they were capable of in year 1. Long range combat is not for hand cannons. Scout rifles are supposed to be the counter to snipers, not hand cannons. They could help out the stability a bit though and make it a reliable type of weapon up against shotguns. I would be all over that since I need something to wreck to shotgunners.
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3 AntwortenI find them perfectly usable. I have 3 very reliable HCs that all serve a purpose. Byronic Hero Sureshot,outlaw,explosive rounds, LitC my go to pve HC just reliable and cant gid rid of it. Applelant III Trusight, grenadier, braced frame, partial refund high RoF good stability keeps my warlock in grenades good for pvp The Devil You Know Sureshot, outlaw, hand loaded, hidden hand nothing impressive but just a solid magnum
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F*cking y2 scrubs can't handle buffs. Anyone who thinks they are good in this bs meta is a complete fool. Bring back y1 hand cannon meta, and stop nerfing everything to the ground!
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von OOOOF: 6/28/2016 8:39:36 AM[u] I think you don't know how to aim, OP[/u]. I see top players using hand cannons like eyasluna and finnala's peril all the time, and also LAST WORD IS STILL THE MOST USED WEAPON, EVEN AFTER THE NERFS. if they buff hand cannons, they should also buff pulse rifles and auto rifles, cause hand cannons are very good. Get an handcannon with a range perk, remember that it isn't a scout rifle and you'll be fine.
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Needs a tl;dr
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I agree, the damage drop off needs to be reversed.