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2/22/2016 7:41:07 PM
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If you're a Nightstalker, shadestep away from it right away. Otherwise, you really need to avoid it before you're caught. DON'T try to cross through an AoE grenade like poison, even if you think you have enough health to live it. If you're going 1v1 against a nightstalker, avoid close range or doorways where they could easily get you, until they use the grenades or you know you can kill them quickly. Poison nades are kinda like fusion nades - not much you can do once they stick you.
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Wat do when gunfighting with thorn or last word? Am I only can use tlw or thorn? Seem to me only way to win is by making opponent miss shots which can't be guaranteed
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Thorn isn't a problem in level-advantage playlists like ToO/IB, but it can still 3-shot otherwise. You want to either counter it from long range, or extremely close range where it will be ineffective. MIDA/most scouts will destroy it from a safe range, while shotguns and melee will take it down close. In medium range, I'd definitely try to get an advantage with a grenade or guaranteed first-shot. TLW should always beat thorn in this range if you can land hits. TLW is becomes very weak at mid-long range, where it is hard to aim full-auto. Use this to your advantage, and challenge where they will be forced to either single-fire or miss most shots. Even the doctrine can consistently outrange TLW. Just be aware TLW has the potential to drop you in 2 shots if you ever try to rush in its face.
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I see. So tlw and thorn can't be reliably countered unless from far range?
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It largely depends on both players' skill/aim. What I suggested should safely get you the kill 99% of the time, but it's not like you can't challenge thorn/tlw in their best range and still win. With how powerful some auto rifles are right now (especially high firerate), it's not hard to spray down all hand cannons at mid range. It's all just outplaying the enemy, so why not maximize your advantage?
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No I get that, but considering most engagements are close to mid range. And considering gunfights are where two people are shooting at each other. And if we take two players of equal skill(taking into account sbmm) It boils down to who is using what gun. A skilled tlw user will have an advantage over a skilled doctrine user
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I disagree with that view completely. Crucible is way more about outplaying through available means. It's not just two players, standing still, shooting each other until one wins. You have so many unique classes, perks, mobility options, grenades, melees, map layouts, teamwork etc. to utilize. The actual guns & archetypes are only a small piece of that. The time to kill on guns are so extremely close together that it's just silly to suggest that as the winning factor in a fight. Range is a much bigger factor, so play in the range that fits your weapon archetype. If you lose to TLW/thorn when you're 20 feet away with a scout rifle, you shouldn't be 20 feet away with a scout. Playing smart is playing well.
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OK thanks. You've kinda proven the imbalanced gun play.
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The gun play is fixed within separate archetypes of separate weapon types, all of which counter or get countered by other archetypes. That's like the definition of balance. Imagine it as a big game of rock-paper-scissors, but in Destiny - range is the deciding factor. You can control that range with playstyle to match your gun, and counter theirs, and assure you win. If you expect all guns to be equally powerful against each other at every range, you're not gunna be happy with any shooter.
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But range isn't my issue. Fact is a certain range gun a, which is designed for that range, will out class guns b through g, which are also designed for that same range. That's not balanced Unless there's some massive skill gap using certain weapons will give you an advantage even against weapons designed for the same range
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TLW and Thorn are also exotics, they're supposed to be a bit more powerful than equivalent non-exotics. TLW also falls in its own, unique archetype as a high-firerate, full-auto hand cannon. It really has no obvious counterpart to outgun, and it is meant for those 1v1, mid-close engages. I would agree it's a bit too powerful in potential, and I'm not really sure why it's full-auto, but it's not game-breaking, and it's certainly not impossible to play around. Same thing goes for Thorn, but it's y1, and got nerfed both on damage and range to actually fit the hand cannon role. They're powerful, but they're actually playing into their role right now. With this thread, I'm trying focus on advice to win in the game's current state, not complain and hope for nerfs/buffs.
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I understand where you're coming from but with this thread you instead point to a players lack of skill instead of gun balance. Skill is the determining factor in a [b][i]balanced[/i][/b] game however in one that isn't balanced skill plays less of an important role. And in regards to exotics being "better" that's not how they're meant to be. As per Bungo they're meant to be unique, but not better than their legendary counterparts
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Skill is the determining factor, though. By pure gun potential, snipers should win absolutely every gun fight ever. They can instant kill on headshot with a 0 second time to kill at any range. I mean, it's POSSIBLE to snipe-headshot that guy blinking through the air towards you with a shotgun, but is that going to happen 99.99% of the time? No. A balanced engagement would be two weapons both in their optimal effective range. That's when gunfight skill is involved. TLW/Thorn on mid-close versus a high-firerate autorifle like Doctrine comes down to skill because of this. Skill can also obviously tilt disadvantaged engagements. But again, I think the main skill in PvP is putting yourself in the situations where you HAVE the optimal advantage, then the gun fights should be easy.
