Alright, that's about enough. People have expressed their opinions, both positive and negative, and it was fun to hear what others thought about what I said (And a few about me as well).
Thanks for the response guys. Hope you all have a nice day. ^_^
[spoiler]by the way...does anyone know who took my pants?[/spoiler]
Oh, and don't open the spoiler unless you want to read a giant wall of text. Be warned.
[spoiler]Well, first off, if you want to hate or be a troll, don't expect a response from me. Sorry. If, on the other hand, you want to have a civilized conversation or debate, then we'll talk. Ok? Good.
Alright. The new meta. AR's and Scouts. What's not to like...right? Wrong.
Bungie's made a fundamental error in patch 2.1 rebalancing: in their effort to make the game more balanced, they've tuned down a handful of things [i]too much[/i].
Take pulses for example. Sure you can still use them, but you're going to lose to a competent auto at mid-close range and a scout at long range. They're, at this point, inferior to these two weapon classes. And, the funny part is, [b]we're nearly back at square one, vanilla destiny meta.[/b] Pulses are just as bad now as they were in vanilla destiny. The difference? Auto's are [i]slightly[/i] less OP. We've come all this way, from "buff pulses we can't use them" to "nerf pulses, they're way too OP!" And where are we left? Back at square one.
Shotties? Hate me if you want, but they were fine in 2.0, for the most part. Face it. They were [i]far[/i] more tolerable than in the past. Granted, the "felwinters" archetype (party crasher, conspiracy theory) still hit too hard, but that's fixable [i]without[/i] nerfing the whole class of weapons. And, before you say "shotgun scrub wants his crutch back", I run a sniper, 2x snipers, or a sidearm ten times out of ten. I simply decided to never use shotguns ever again. With that said, shotguns in 2.0 were easy enough to counter [b]if you play smart[/b]. Key word: Smart.
But the problem with this meta is mainly that, frankly, it's near impossible at this point to run an exotic that isn't part of the meta. That's something that I've only ever experienced in 2.1. I had no trouble using a variety of exotics in the thorn meta or the pulse meta...so why is there an issue now? Because they've tried [i]too hard[/i] to balance everything, and have only succeeded in making everything else but the current meta [i]too "balanced" (weak) to be competitive![/i] This meta is easily the most [i]stale[/i] and [i]boring[/i] meta to date. Easily.
Now, before you all go saying "if X gun wasn't OP, then why'd so many people complain about it?" Quite simple.
I've said this before, I'll say it again. [b]it's not the gun, it's the user.[/b] More often than not, if someone is being outplayed so badly that they feel the need to come and complain, then chances are they played against someone who was [i]better[/i] than them: smarter, more skilled, or more experienced. When it comes down to that, the answer is quite simple: [b]it's not because of some gun that you got beat, it's because the opponent played [i]better[/i] than you.[/b] That same skilled player most likely could, and would, beat out a less skilled player with [i]any[/i] gun. A shotgun. A sniper. A fusion. A sidearm. A pulse. An auto. A HC. A scout. They were all viable in 2.0, at least. Sure, some were better than others, but not by much. Now? Now everything's been toned down except the few weapons that would have been better by a bit. Now, that bit is a little more significant. Too significant.
And the funny thing? The "no-lifers" of PvP, the "experts"? Did you hear them complaining by the masses? Did you hear even a few complain? (Guns, not supers). Probably not. Why? Because they recognized that 2.0 was the [i]most[/i] balanced the crucible had ever been.
And now? Now it's back to shit. Now it's time to sit back and watch as people come to this realization, one after another. We had it good, now it's gone.
Now bring the hate, bring the flamers. They'll slander me today, and find out they're wrong in the coming future.[/spoiler]
English
#pants
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6 AntwortenI'm going to start traveling the world smacking the shit out of everyone that uses the terrible word 'meta'
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3 Antwortenwith just one day... my first impressions are: - ARs make the same damage - Pulse Rifles: can be used in mid and long range BUT no domain in none (avarage in all, king of nothing) i think can be used for "fishing" a distracted (or hurt) guardian in any range, but will be hard to win a direct encounter - Hand Cannons: i´m happy because now can be a competitive option (other than TLW or Hawkmoon) - scouts: i dont feel changes... can win more easy against pulse rifles. - Shotguns: i love shotguns but... i think this patch was the final hit... a good shotgun user, aims before shoot (almost always)... with slower aim, the shotguns are dificult to use even in close range... still can be a OHKO weapon... but i´m sure that you will prefer other options (it seems like the chaperone continue being a great weapon) - Snipers: horrible, letal and effectives. The best (maybe the only one) option in special weapon slot IMO. With the shotguns out of the way... sidearms and Fusion Rifles don´t reward the risk for seek a close range combat (in the same way like the shotguns did it)... better wait for others come to you and then use it. For now "keep your distance" in pvp... however, remember... its too early to hate this patch Have a nice day
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Total shit. Wow what do you know? The new flavor for this month is scout rifles boys and girls cause these dumb -blam!-s don't know what the duck they are doing
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I agree that pulses were nerfed too hard. Either the damage nerf or the range nerf on their own would have been fine. Personally, I would have nerfed the damage by about 5% . Pulses, to me, should be between auto rifles and scout rifles range, which they were in 2.0. The 5% damage reduction would prevent 2 burst kills on mid armor builds. Shotguns are still fine in pvp in 2.1. The changes are hardly noticeable. I would also note that it is pretty early to be calling the new meta boring. We haven't had enough time to really see which guns come out on top. I used bad juju, suros regime, and MIDA, to great effect since the patch.
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Yes everything sucks now except snipers lol
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I think the major issue with weapon balance is that it really kills pve. The balances are usually 70% Nerf and 30% buff. (Numbers are a ballpark figure) So our guns are continually doing less damage and making the game not only harder but less fun.
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1 AntwortenThis meta is disgusting. Its just rewarding the chaotic playstyle of not thinking and just run at peoples faces and spray an AR to make them flinch real good. The previous meta would have been fine if they just increased damage drop off on pulses. Im equiping the TLW because I cant deal with close range bullshit.
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Autos should win in close range. And a scout should be the best long range encounter primary.
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It is pretty stale and boring
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3 AntwortenBearbeitet von Corrick II: 12/9/2015 3:33:37 PMShotguns being nerfed for PvP, whatever, whoever screams the loudest wins. But for PvE? What the hell, Bungie? Why? There was no reason to make them even [i]more[/i] useless than they already were. There is no close range game anymore, now I'd rather just keep backing up. Why take the risk of shooting rock salt at a major when I can throw a grenade and back peddle.
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Bearbeitet von TheMysteriousEnd: 12/9/2015 3:53:23 PMAgreed 100%. The only issues in 2.0 were ARs were [i]slightly[/i] underpowered HCs just needed the accuracy buff they've since had PR's were [i]slightly[/i] overpowered ScR's were pretty much fine. SR's were fine, besides LiTC SG's were fine, besides Crutch Theory-D Sidearms were fine, but underused due to SG's RL's were fine MG's were fine Swords weren't great, but they are melee weapons for a reason Now it just feels awful.
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6 AntwortenI feel like shotguns haven't gotten too much of a nerf, my Jingukogo-D is a mid-range sort of shotty, and it's still potent. Fusion Rifles are great right now, I love using my Susanoo Warlock FR, but I wasn't having a problem using it well before. Snipers are still fine. I will admit however that I was having a hard time using the Apple of Discord pulse rifle, if they nudged up the damage by 1% or less, I think pulse rifles would be in a solid place. All the other primaries are in solid places, like you said, ARs and SRs are the go to weapons right now, and Handcannons are respectable. I think the problem is catering to more casual Guardians, who unfortunately might not be as good at shooting, while more hardcore Guardians can use any weapon, like you stated, can use any weapon well. Bungie has to balance that discrepancy between players, and it doesn't always go well.
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Pulses are still better than autos. Handcannons can hit things. Scout rifles can't be beat at range. Shotguns can still be competitive. Honestly this is the most balanced I've ever seen crucible.
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1 AntwortenI don't see why you have a problem with an auto rifle beating a pulse at close range and a scout winning at long range those are what those weapons were made for
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I read another thread that says the Ljudmilla has been nerfed by almost 20%!! Crazy.
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1 AntwortenAny meta is better then the thorn and blink-shotgun meta.
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3 Antworten[quote] Take pulses for example. Sure you can still use them, but you're going to lose to a competent auto at mid-close range and a scout at long range. They're, at this point, inferior to these two weapon classes. [/quote] Not trying to flame, but wasn't that the point? Pulses were so effective at all ranges that they were better choices than ARs and Scouts at their optimal ranges. I'm no PvP god, but I should not have been outgunned by Hawksaw and Red Death at scout rifle range.
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5 AntwortenSay meta one more time please.... Meta. Meta? Meta! Meta?! Meta, meta, meta.
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2 Antworten[quote] Sure you can still use them, but you're going to lose to a competent auto at mid-close range and a scout at long range[/quote] So basically what you are saying is auto rifles are effective at close to close-mid range, pulses are effective from close-midrange to mid-long range, and scouts are effective at long range? You mean, like they are supposed to be? Didn't need to read any farther to see how idiotic your logic is.
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2 AntwortenThere will always be a meta. There will always be people who don't like it. There will always be people who can't deal with it. And there will ALWAYS be someone posting their feelings about it on here. People still cannot grasp what an MMO does: change. Don't get hung up on using one damn weapon or piece of gear, as it will most likely not be as prime in several months, as you think it is NOW. Sure, player skill is a giant factor, and 2.0 was an enjoyable balance, but the age of the pulse rifle is over.
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I stand with this post
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4 AntwortenI'd be on board with the idea of Destiny's PVP going with the whole "start with two generic weapons and pick up stronger ones that spawn on the map" style of play. Maybe I'm saying this because I'm new but I think the Halo or Halo: Reach style of play would provide a well-balanced system for this game. I get it, people work and grind hard for those fancy exotics and rare weapons, but I think those should be exclusive to PVE at this point. I say this mainly because of what this forum is filled with; people saying that this gun class needs to be nerfed while another should be buffed. I think this game would be better off if players started Crucible matches with a basic auto, scout, or pulse rifle and a handgun. Then go around the map to find heavy weapons, snipers, and exotics. Will this please everyone? No because nothing can please everybody, but I personally think this is the most fair way of doing things when it comes to having "balanced weaponry" while still having the opportunity to use stronger weapons.
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6 AntwortenDidn't even bother reading the rest of the posts when I saw the word Scout XD MIDA is way overpowered and I never say that about any weapon, not even TLW or Thorn. I got killed in two hits by it earlier to day. I was like WTF out loud. Hap to apologize to my roommates for the outburst
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One -blam!-îng day
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you lost me at "I had no trouble using a variety of exotics in the thorn meta" hahahaha that is so untrue