Consider the following. [b]TITANS ARE JUST FINALLY FILLING THEIR INTENDED ROLE[/b] 55% reduction is the standard for Radiant Skin Sunsingers and Sunbreakers The thing is that most Sunbreakers spec for max armor, and will opt for Armor boosting gear when using their only PVP sub class. Since Titans in year 1, never were really seen walking around with their supers for that long (Defender just stayed put, and Strikers were 1 and done). Most people are not used to high armor characters. Titan's armor, will always out class every other class for armor. So we don't have a super problem we have a mind set problem. The health regen isn't an issue because its a perk, that requires a kill, just like hungering blade for blade dancers. The reason why it extends to all the titan abilities is because their melee is useless. Now the reason why blade dancers die during their super is because hungering blade is the best perk to use period, and that perk is useless with low recovery. Since Hunters focus on agility, the only good build is to try to max recovery and agility, (also agility because it helps them get to their target quicker). Now we have the polarizing character. A high armor beast. Titans can not get max agility and recovery, so they will focus on Armor and recovery since it mixes better with cauterize. People are just not used to that. A [u][b]weak[/b][/u] argument would be "Titan Skating", ok fine, but titan skating doesn't work well on all maps. Sector 618, for example, Titan skating is next to impossible. The low ceilings trip them up and you don't typically want to risk it for the mid section where a miss timed burst leads to a very Super Mario death. Maps like Banner Fall and Pantheon where there are high ceilings and lots of straight lines are good for Titan Skating. So with the limit map selection where titan skating is a variable option, it is a non-factor. OK so lets address the head shots. In Naroon's Video, [url]https://youtu.be/Tg8B4R3zRuo[/url] It was well done, but it never accounted for radiant skin Sunsingers. This is HUGE. It changes the way Sunsingers are used. Firebourne Sunsingers are REACTIVE, and Radiant Skin are PROACTIVE. Meaning one is going to go hunting (Radiant Skin) and one is going for revenge (Firebourne), That being said Sunsingers can get the same armor boosting perks like sunbreakers that give a further boost to their armor. Add flame shield to the mix and they have armor that eclipses the Sunbreaker. During standard PVP, (not IB or ToO), they can rock a RAM on top of all that as well and just be stupid tanky. At this point snipers headshots won't matter like sun breakers. Now if you factor in cauterize the debate shifts to what is better ARMOR or RECOVERY? Consider this, Cauterize will disengage after they next shot the titan will take. Think of the Red Death Perk, Its great if you run into 1 person, but after a group its not so good. Where as Flame shield is applied INSTANTLY. Flame shield roughly adds 75 extra HP to the Sunsinger. When all is said and done a Sunbreaker max effective health pool is at 215 with 55% Damage reduction, and a Sunsinger can have a potiential max health pool of 300+ with the 55% Damage reduction. AKA Soaking the Sleeper Simulant. I hope this can further explain why sunbreakers are not as OP as people say they are, they are merely a paradigm shift in how crucible is being approached. As a community we have to accept that the health pool is now deeper than it was before, and that doesn't mean its "unbalanced", since the water is always level at the top. [b][u]EDIT[/b][/u] [url]https://youtu.be/Fu6rVyQ3gUo[/url] Datto's research into damage reduction based off of Rocket launchers. [b][u]TL;DR[/b][/u] 1. Sunsingers = Sunbreakers damage reduction. Illusions of greater damage reduction is because of Titan's naturally higher armor stat. 2. Sunsingers can stack more armor if built correctly. (Radiant Skin + Flame Shield + Solar Subclass Armor + Ram) (Even with out ram and solar sun class armor, a sunsinger that activates flame shield can soak a Sleeper Simulant shot, a Sunbreaker can not) 3. Bladedancer = Sunbreakers= Since hungering blade works just like cauterize its based off of recovery. A bladedancer can not max Armor and Recovery, so most spec for as much agility and recovery, meaning their already lowest armor class doesn't appear to have the same damage soaking potiential. 4. Sunbreakers are not op, its just a symptom of high armor becoming in style for PVP, instead of the year of blinky jumpy builds. [u][b]EDIT 2[/b][/u] Wow what an amazing response. 34 likes and with the exception of some butt hurt try hards, people seem to agree! Glad to hear reason is a thing on these forums [b][u]EDIT 3[/u][/b] Apparently people are finally understanding that a Sunbreaker isn't OP, its the fact that titans are finally filling their intended role. 61 LIKES!!! [b][u]EDIT 4: READ BEFORE COMMENTING[/b][/u] [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/165109540/0/0[/url] Here is a guide on how to debate that a Sunbreaker is OP. While my post focuses on the fact that no part of the Sunbreaker is OP when compared to the other supers. [b]DaRealMudkip[/b] address common arguments. [b][u]EDIT 5[/b][/u] The support for reason continues as this thread is now trending! 89 LIKES IN UNDER 24 hours HOLY SHIT! [b][u]EDIT 6[/b][/u] 170+ "LIKES" !!!!!speak volumes people. I think that the consensus is that Sunbreakers are in fact [u]NOT[/u] OP as said by the community. [b][u]EDIT 7[/b][/u] BALANCE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR NEUTRAL GAME The Sunbreaker has a horrible neutral game because Bungie has deemed the titan unworthy of an effective melee, and no homing grenades. So how do you counter this. Well you can not up the neutral game with out taking away from the super game. With out touching the ARMOR 1. SWITCH FORGE MASTER AND SIMMERING FLAMES- This is not a nerf, this would mean you can either get more hammer with bigger blasts, OR you get health regen. NOT BOTH. At the same time this will allow Health regen, and more grenades and melee. Making a sunspot built an actual usable class in PVP 2. REDUCE HAMMERS BY 1 AND INCREASE SUNCHARGE BY 1-Suncharge eats up a lot of super energy. Again people aren't using this ability because why should they, a hammer does the same thing and doesn't need to be in the person's face. So having suncharge a higher risk maneuver take less energy is a trade off. That said the balance would be the roughly 7 with Hammer Forged or the 6 without, (in ideal conditions) will be reduced to 6 & 5 respectively.