If you ask its gonna be a lot more fun A LOT more fun. Not walking in a firefight and getting your head blown off.

Butthurt troll is butthurt.

If someone is blinking at you jump strait up or backup. Don't just stand there and wait

I agree. Especially nerfing blink... so stupid. But people always find another way to cry about something. Nerfing shotguns should be enough to stop the blink hate but no. cant wait to see the hate the nightsalker evade will get. Gonna be crazy

I did a bit of background checking. Damn gurl, 18380 hand cannon kills registered on: Thorn, Hawkmoon (with a whopping 8450) and TWL? You don't like the 2.0 meta because it removes your crutches. I don't need to check your heavy weapon grimoire or your secondary weapon grimoire. This speaks for itself. For those that are interested. His hand cannon kills are about 50k according to his grimoire (more than his scout and auto put together, he has about 20k registered in each of the other [i]type[/i] of weapon), and his exotic breakdown is: Thorn: 5560 Hawk: 8450 TLW: 4370 How about you out some variety into your weapons of choice. And 9 primary weapons, out of approximately 70-90? Yep, because great choice is only ever 10% of all choice. Pulse rifles and hand cannons are boring to hear and use. Autos are fun, but were nerfed to hell (Maxed Shadow Price, 23 headshots. Gtfo.) and scouts? Sorry, map too small feasibly to use one all the time. Here's what the 2.0 meta's gonna look like: Primary: Auto rifle/pulse rifle/hand cannon. Secondary: fusion/sniper Heavy: pretty unchanged. I think the 2.0 will be a good era for crucible.

I had never been on a game forum before this. I kind of thought it was weird how much people cry nerf. I didn't know if it was normal for pvp games to have communities that did this or not.

I don't know when you all started playing, but as an alpha player I think you've all forgotten what the intended niche of hand-cannons was supposed to be. They were intended as high-risk, high-reward, where you had to make every shot count but they'd outran age every other primary. In the current state of the game that risk isn't there. The Hand Cannon class wasn't supposed to be the "remain agile while shooting the enemy" weapon class as you just threw as many magnum bullets as you could in the opponent's general direction like you seem to be treating it; if anything that's supposed to be auto rifles, the spray-and-play weapon class. Handcannons were supposed to be used with discretion by skilled players; if they had gone to launch with Handcannons the way they felt in alpha, hardly any of you would actually be able to do well with them because back then they really had the feel of something unwieldy and hard to pick up that absolutely wrecked if you had fast reflexes and good aim. The closest I and a lot of the playerbase in Alpha got was scout rifle supremacy, but the guys who could actually use the things cleaned house. You can complain about Handcannons getting hit when you're in the population that could actually use one in their intended balance. I know I haven't been practiced enough to be in that population since before Thorn got buffed, so I'll stand by their decision on that. As for the hilariously out-of-hand high-range shotguns and Blink, don't even try to pass that shit off as reasonable. Being "the best way to do _____" in no way means that the method in question is balanced, fair or sportsmanlike(which is something they likely care about since they've said they want you to go into Crucible to have fun instead of getting sweaty and in the mood like a goddamned neckbeard). Blink is certainly better than the other jumps in Crucible to the point they can justify a nerf(though I don't think it's entirely necessary, the reasoning is more than there), and shotguns are well out of their intended place by now and Papa Bungie needs to get his belt. I don't even know why you're bringing up fusion rifles, on the other hand; they've had enough. Stop bringing them back into this, it's like if they re-drafted Lieutenant Dan when we went into the Middle East.

"I simply asked a question couched in a very cautious, inquisitive, and open manner." If by question couched in a very cautious, inquisitive and open manner you mean typed up like a testosterone fueled 17 year old bragging and boasting...yea. I wish I had screen capped the original post just to further make you look like the tool you are. Didn't even bother reading the rest of your final edit...I know your type. Stand-offish, dismissive and self-righteous to the end. Even when you innate opinion is chewed up and spat out as it clearly was here, rather then concede that maybe you're wrong, you call everyone who doesn't agree with you "stupid" and act as if your word is sacred above all. Frankly, I don't even know why I came back to this thread. A friend of mine here pointed out your saddle brained "final edit" and I couldn't believe it was possible for someone to be [b]THAT[/b] naive and jaded. The internet proves me wrong again. You're a sad excuse for a human being, friendo. The prime example of how the internet is the "idiot box" of humanity. Where imbeciles are actually given a voice whereas in real life no one would give 2 shits about you, or your needless opinion. You're obligated to it, of course. But when the general flow of responses oppose your opinion rather then agree with it...maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe the majority aren't the ones who need to rethink their stance. Food for thought. In the most sincerest way of saying this, grow up.

[quote]***I know final edit is long but it's primarily addressed to the 700 guardians who have already replied*** FINAL EDIT: The amount of salt this very non-controversial post of mine has garnered has both surprised and, ultimately, saddened me. For clarification, I simply asked a question couched in a very cautious, inquisitive, and open manner. What I received in response from the community was a level of contempt and animosity normally reserved for the very worst of "troll" posts. Now, before you all start in with thinking that my booty is hurt, let me make it very clear, it is NOT... at least not because most of you disagree with me... No, me being saddened by the whole thing rests solely at the feet of a realization about this community that has developed from combing through the details of the hundreds of frustrations, concerns, and excuses outlined in your replies... and that is this: Bungie's current PvP product has simply become far too quick and twitchy for most of you. Almost every hysterical reply has included lamentations of things happening to you far too quickly and before you have a chance to counter said offense. I'll be honest, I love Destiny PvP (Trials in particular) and dreamed about being part of a much more skilled, competitive, and, ultimately, mature (in a fps gamer sense) gaming community. The first two Halos did. Gears of War 3 did. And, Battlefield 4 currently has a very advanced player base. And let me just inform you, this community is no where near those! Not even close! I mean, I've tried to imagine kids crying about the Pistols and Rockets in Halo being OP back in the day and just start laughing about quickly any moron like that would have been kicked out of the system link party for even thinking it. How about someone calling for the BXR combo to be patched in Halo 2? No way! You were expected to master it or GTFO! What if some half-bright asked for "wall bouncing/gnashers" in Gears of War 3 to be nerfed? 'Maybe it should have a cool down so I can collect myself before someone better than me wrecks my ass!' Not a chance! People would have looked at you like you were some kind of circus freak as the words were leaving your mouth. IDK. I technically have no right to expect that of you all. Maybe this community was never going to be that... thus, I was naive by indulging in those hopes and desires. I appear to have been wrong in doing so. Ehhh, I'm 36 now and those hard-d#%k bad a33es are off doing who knows what with their lives... admittedly, probably something better with their time. But, I now know they're definitely not part of this community and, as such, I'm left with you all who, unfortunately for me, have proven to be a terribly pitiful group of whiny, unskilled underachieving gamers to help carry on the legacy of the guys who made these kinds of games popular in the first place. I'd say it would have been good for many of you to have known them, but, they would have been bored by you anyway. --------------------------------------------- Original Post: Is it just me or do the details of the weapon patch 2.0 make it sound like PvP is about to turn into a very boring style of play? Here me out: 1.) Nerfing Blink - was one of the best ways to close on the enemy. 2.) Nerfing Shotguns and Fusion Rifles - effective weapon to kill with once closed on enemy. 3.) Nerfing Hand Cannons - really the only current viable primary class that's effective at remaining agile while shooting the enemy. Seems pretty obvious that come 2.0 we'll all be taking shots at each other from a cross the map with our Snipers and Scout Rifles... Yeah! Sounds like fun! Edit #1: In light of the responders making incoherent claims about a current lack of weapon variety, I thought I would make a short list of weapons currently available to us... ALL of which if used by a good player will yield strong results. Primary - Thorn, TLW, Hawk, Red Death, Bad Juju, MIDA, Messenger, Hop Scotch = 9. Secondary - Fel Winter's, Matador, Party Crasher, Invective, Pocket Infinity, Plan C, LDR, Efrideets, Long Bow, Praedyth's, Her Benevolence = 11. Heavy - Truth, Ghally, and the million other rocket launchers with horseshoes and grenades. Jolder's, Thunderlord, Corrective Measure. Add in supers, melees, and grenades and I have to ask, how many f@#%ing choices do you need to be happy???!!!!! Edit #2: You can almost be certain that if you are complaining about Blink then you are someone who does not know how to use it and must get owned by it regularly... what a scrubby defect... so easy to counter... I haven't been killed by one in probably 3 weeks.[/quote] I just want to say thank you. 99% of this population is too young or casual to remember what it was like to grind and play skill-based matchmaking. It's saddening that our nostalgia is twisted and perceived as "elitist thinking" Most of the gamers here have also grown up with participation trophies I.e. Through sports or other competitions. They've been raised on the concept of "everyone should be acknowledged for effort" good or poor. That's what destiny is - one big pat on the back for showing up. Win or lose, everybody is "special". And to be fair the consumer pays, so you can't blame bungie for catering to the masses. Depressing, but that is destiny - one big participation trophy. Without blink.

I'm not entirely sure what I think of the 2.0 meta, so I'll reserve judgement, but one thing I agree witch is that PvP has gotten fast and twitchy. However, I like it that way. And, like you, I'm almost never killed by blink shotgunners.

I've often wondered why competitive gamers even bother with Destiny. Small maps, supers and a pick up and play style make it a fairly blah PvP experience. It is a long way from the other games you mention in terms of the required skill level. It plays like a watered down version of Quake Arena from back in the day. As a tag on to a predominately PvE game it was fine until the competitive gamers cottoned on to the unbalanced nature of some of the weapons and then their try hard taggers on followed suit. It has become repetitive and dull. I played blink shotgun for one Iron Banner (my kdr went from .7 to 1.2 when matador dropped), but it bored the hell out of me. Try and play any other way and it becomes so frustrating that it stops being fun. I'd love to know the percentage of Destiny players who don't touch PvP these days. I imagine it is quite high. It should be a nice way to kick back after a long day in the office and once the kids are in bed. Hopefully 2.0 will achieve that. If it removes a number of competitive gamers and their followers then so much the better.

I ALSO FIND IT FUNNY THAT HE'S REFERRING TO 2.0 AS A "META" WHEN META MEANS IN THE MOMENT, AS IN WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AT THIS MOMENT. 2.0 IS [u]NOT[/u] A META, BECAUSE IT HASNT HAPPENED YET. 2.0 IS NOT THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME [spoiler]I LIKE CAPS[/spoiler]

I played Gears of War 3 religiously, and I'm defiantly sure there was a lot of complaints regarding how over powered the Gnasher and Sawn off shotgun were? Both guns defiantly got nerfed.

[b][i][u] I LAUGHED AT THE PART WHERE HE SAID HE HASNT BEEN KILLED BY A BLINKER IN 3 WEEKS. MUST BE NICE BEING SO PRO THAT YOU DONT DIE[/u][/i][/b]

All I read was: Blah, blah, blah....I was good at other games but not a Meta here... All Destiny players are try-hards... Cry, cry, cry-compare....cry some more...something about Halo, something about GTFO.... More tears, salty ones, nah-nah-nah boo-boo combos are cool...sticky sweaty grenades... Something about a small penis...more comparisons...more wanna be elite comments...blah, blah cry, whaaa why do things get nerfed... [b][i]Does that about sum things up?[/i][/b]

I'm against 1 shot kills generally. I love dancing with an enemy, diving for cover, trying to flank them, strafing, trying to out headshot the other. You often never know about a sniper till your dead. And have little time to react when you get 1 shotted from someone entering a room or jumping up to your level with a shotgun despite being 20 ft away.

If you are looking for competitive gameplay in Crucible you are in the wrong place. Also, you sound like a condescending douche. Also, if you have the background you say you did, I would think you would at least use "scrub" correctly.

[quote]2.) Nerfing Shotguns and Fusion Rifles - effective weapon to kill with once closed on enemy.[/quote]Fusion rifles have been dead for a while, anyway...Didn't know someone still cared.

Some of us wanted our favorite weapon class back and hate using hand canons in PvP. We are very happy with 2.0

Hmm i personaly disagree with Bad Juju being on that list, but thats just me. But no, i feel like Pulse rifles will become the next main weapon type, decent at most all ranges and then pair it with the range you like to play in most so either shotty or sniper. I dont think fuzion rifles will be used to much but it could happen.