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6/12/2015 6:29:05 PM
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Does bungie know how to balance a game properly
So if anyone here enjoys crucible occasionally, or plays it hare core, than you've probably noticed some issues with how weapons are balanced. I'm eventually going to make a YouTube series detailing exact times to kill, average dps, and other stats, to show how broken some aspects of this game are.
I'll start with a big one. The thorn.
Anyone who's played trials knows that this piece of crap is guaranteed to be used by almost everyone you encounter. 2 shots from a thorn is a guaranteed kill, after poison. It out shoots most snipers, and is one of the most frustrating things to encounter. The question is, how did it get so over powered?
Hand cannons in general received a large buff, while bungie nerfed many of the the other weapon classes. Hand cannons in general take around 3 shots to kill a player, while as auto rifles take around 8 to 10, pulse rifles can range from 4 bursts to 5, and scout rifles can take any where from 4 to 5. With the clear advantage to hand cannons, why would anyone not use them?
In addition to doing more damage then most weapon classes, the thorns poison effect adds a very frustrating burn effect, which says health and impedes aim. Being hit first by a thorn will almost always guarantee a loss in that firefight.
How can it be fixed? For starters, all gun classes need to be balanced so there's no one true favorite. That will raise the time to kill on the thorn, and allow other weapons, like the multi tool or hard light, to be successful in crucible as well. In addition, the poison effect should do less damage over less time. This will prevent burning out after a firefight concluded, unless the thorn user greatly diminished your health. Video will be up soon, let me know what you guys think
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Sadly activision is to blame for PvP connection they have they hand in it and its garbage just like cod its why I left that title for this game but since activision has took over PvP its shit and always will be chase they Dont care
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von TheTrueReflex: 6/17/2015 12:03:27 PMTL;DR They suck at balancing. End of story. Not because of weapons being powerful, but because of what they do to such guns AKA Auto rifles. What was once used daily is never used anymore. They have no idea how to balance the weapons in Destiny for PvP. Instead of coming up with fixes to bring weapons more in line with other weapons, they just make a good weapon complete utter crap. The problem with this is that once a weapon which was used by the majority is nerfed, another will take its place. Suros to thorn. Thorn to last word. Last word to hawkmoon (as of TTK DLC for xbox users) Hawkmoon to red death Red death to vex mythoclast Vex mythoclast to bad juju Bad juju to the messenger The messenger to WHATEVER IS NEXT Until finally, all weapons are complete utter crap, making PvP balanced sure , but completely boring. Nerfing is the WRONG way to balance weapons. Instead of say, nerfing thorn to hell, how about this. Make its DoT not kill. Only damage. That's the main problem people have anyways. Thorn being a 2 shot kill ONLY cause of DoT. That seems fair, no? Just spitballing here, but hey, it's better than whatever the hell they're doing over at Bungie.
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Yes they know how to make amazingly balanced games. Have you seen Halo? With games like Destiny there will always be very good guns, but I would say autos need a buff.
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Remember how fun Destiny PVP was in the beta? I miss those days. It takes a single bullet from Thorn to disable you from the fight if you're lucky enough to get to cover which is absurd. You can shoot an enemy in the head with an AR and with Thorn has time to turn and drop you before you even come close to getting the kill. From any range Thorn is dominate and I don't get why Bungie allows this to continue. Once Halo 5 & Black Ops 3 come out I'm done with Destiny PVP. I'll play PVE occasionally but I'm done with this terribly unbalanced mess.
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1 AntwortenSimple: No more force feeding PvP to the 80+% of us who just don't like it. Build it right? We will start to play. I, along with many others(i can only speculate) left pvp after 1.1.1. Thing is? I was actually starting to enjoy it. No, no i did not have suros. I had/have shadow price and liked using it. They must learn to completely separate weapon TTK or damage output or whatever you call it for pvp and pve. My solution? Stock load out. Choose from a variety of crucible guns at the start. That would be one game mode. Another would let you take your "SUPER OP, like needs a nerf, Thorn"(sarcasm intended) into pvp Yet another would be like iron banner, hell, it WOULD be IB just going on constantly. Level advantages enabled. ToO? that's a tricky topic. maybe the guys who MADE the damn game could come up w some answers. Enough whining, start throwing out ideas on how to fix it and maybe, 1/1,000,000 chance, a somebody at Bungie will read it and say "that's a good one, lets try this". Sorry, 2nd rant against the constant fuking barage of nerf this nerf that threads that started since HoW came out. We now have Friday til monday night to deal w these topics so the more helpful things get pushed back and i get my 1 millionth "Thorn is SOOOOOOO OP" thread. My god. *OP: Bet ya if i check your KD you have an above avg KD. Just a wild guess. I've seen most nerfers are actually quite good in pvp. That's opposite from what you'd think. Theory? Us avg/poor players don't take it as seriously. I don't mind any gun in pvp when i played IB recently. My KD is an abyssmal 1.05
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2 shots isnt a guaranteed kill when i use my ram :D
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von Adam: 6/13/2015 7:25:36 PMThe game, in it's current state, is horrendously unbalanced. Bungie should be ashamed. And to all the people bullshitting about how they 'always beat Thorn with Khvostov, a green Pulse Rifle' etc. You're wrong. [b]Go up against a Thorn using anything but a Last Word/Thorn and YOU WILL LOSE EVERY TIME against a player of equal skill.[/b]... Here's why: *** Firstly, TTK. Thorn and TLW's TTK is 3 times faster than the majority of every other gun. They will DPS you so quickly you won't be able to keep up. *** Secondly, range. Thorn has the range of a Scout Rifle. It's Effective Range is double that of most Pulse Rifles thanks to it's Hand Cannon archetype. Meaning they can get full damage shots on you from ranges where you'll see significant drop off. *** And lastly, the most overlooked point of all: Their flinch multiplier. They're gonna hit you quickly and they're gonna stagger you [i]hard.[/i] You can be landing headshots, but the instant they hit you back, you stagger, your aim goes to shit, and your bursts are far less accurate. Pulse Rifles/Scouts have a flinch multiplier of 1. Hand Cannons' is 1.7, which is near to sniper rifles at 2. It's retarded. Nothing compete with Thorn & TLW. Nothing. I'm sorry to all of you that disagree, but I play PvP a TON and know the game inside out. This isn't an opinion, this is fact. Maybe Red Death could come close, but like I mentioned, the Hand Cannons stagger it FAR too much at mid range, and anything longer and it will see damage drop off.
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[quote]I'll start with a big one. The thorn. Anyone who's played trials knows that this piece of crap is guaranteed to be used by almost everyone you encounter. 2 shots from a thorn is a guaranteed kill, after poison. It out shoots most snipers, and is one of the most frustrating things to encounter.[/quote] Wow, this is so wrong... First of all: Thorn is [b]only[/b] a two-shot-kill, when you're doing headshots. Second: when you play against a good sniper, a thorn cannot outgun them. I killed a few sniper with it, but they all were terrible and I also could've killed them with mida or red death. When you really want to make a YouToube series, please make sure that you're accurate and objective.
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"4 to 5 bursts from a pulse rifle kills? No. Red death kills in 2 bursts if you dont have terrible aim so does 3 litle words and the meesenger and all if the high impact pulses
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4 AntwortenBearbeitet von Jin: 6/13/2015 2:43:18 AMRed death The messenger Strangers rifle And about 2 other legendary pulse rifles can 2 burst. The scholar Ghaleons demise And any high impact scout rifles can 3 shot. You're using the wrong guns.
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1 AntwortenAll hand cannon need to have a nerf, or all other weapons need a buff. You should not be able to out snipe someone using Thorn. I have done it, and it just isn't a good feeling. I remember when Crucible was diverse in weapons. You had pulse rifles and shotguns, auto rifles and fusion rifles, auto rifles and snipers, etc. Now in almost every single ToO match, it's going to either be Hawkmoon, Thorn, or TLW. Remember when IB came out and all you saw was Suros? I long for those days again, because at least those players Couldn't fire and forget and let the poison do the work for them. One of the greatest weapons in the game, and one of the best to counter Thorn gets immidiately nerfed (Vex). Look at how the Suros fell. That gun, along with all ARs were nerfed hard and swift, but hand cannons remain untouched. Not everyone wants to be confined to certain weapons, I know I don't. I know you can choose what you use, and you may be good at it, but everyone looks for that edge, and those 3 hand cannons can turn the worst players into the best.
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I have played A LOT of crucible. It is my preferred activity in Destiny. And I have no problem with the way thorn is. Is it a powerful gun? Of course. It has great stats and a useful exotic perk. However, give EVERY player a thorn, and a skill gap would still be noticed. If every player used it, it's not like everyone would go positive. It does not make a player good. Give some credit to the people killing you, and recognize that it might be your fault you died. Let's look at this scenario. I come around a corner, my timepiece/messenger armed and ready, ads, searching for the person I know is there. We start unloading. My screen turns green and shit and my tv starts hissing at me. I know I just got hit by Thorn and another shot could mean death (there literally used to be a debuff that would pop up on-screen saying that you are taking damage over time). If I ventured out of cover too far, I'll get shot again. If I played smart and allowed myself an escape, hugging the corner and poking out, I can backpedal and live. Alternatively, I could stick it out and try to outgun him if I'm landing shots and know he missed one, or I know I got the first shot in. I need to be paying attention to who has the upperhand in the battle, not just carelessly abandoning cover in an attempt to get a kill. Now re-read that situation, but put any gun in place of thorn. For the most part the principles of the battle stay the same. If you play carelessly, you're going to die. Play smart, and avoid unnecessary deaths. It's tiring seeing so many people complain about a gun that is easily countered by knowing how to play the game beyond "run around and shoot stuff". Ars and shotguns are far less balanced than thorn. At least thorn is an exotic, and is meant to be more powerful than an average legendary. The player behind the controller matters more than the gun, and that works both ways.
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2 words. Ha and Lo
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Halo Was well balanced imo Any gun you used in pvp You get kills with and be competitive. AR's were most popular as is the case with most fps games. Idk what's going on with this game though
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Honestly you don't need to nerf everything, buff everything unto a standard bar just for crucible and let pve have it's ins and outs. When I mean standard bar every gun has to meat that standard so each gun can deal out enough damage to counter another gun.
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There will always be a favorite. Nerfs do not work in general and from reading your lost I can tell you are a moron. As such, I highly suggest you avoid providing input on weapon balance.
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I still remember the Pre nerf SUROS. That'll drop you quicker than thorn ever could.
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I'd think all the weapons with similar damage out out would be great with each weapon type. All auto rifles around the same, hand cannons, shotguns, etc.
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Nobody can balance a game with so much weapon diversity, I'd like to see any developer perfect PvP in a game like this... I use don't use Thorn a lot any more, unless I'm playing Trials or Iron Banner, I use it then because everyone else is using it, if you can't beat em, join em and all that.
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Only solution-Buff Auto rifles
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I'm pretty sure they don't want the game to be balanced.
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Trick question? Clearly they dont
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Bungie knows how to balance guns, they do not know how to deal with range properly. Halo had sniper pistols as well, just like thorn and tlw.
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1. What's the point of having differ weapons if they all have the same ttk? 2. 90% of the time I out shoot thorn users with TLW. 3.I get beaten by more weapons other than thorn. 4. Player skill ranges from person to person. Some people destroy me with snipers others with shotguns. Some players Wreck me with vex or auto rifles before I can out shoot them with a hand cannon. 5. Instead of jumping on here to complain about your frustration or lack of skill(don't know if you do or not) just keep playing. Playing angry or upset will make you a worse player. Stay confident and keep enjoying the game you continue to play.
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3 AntwortenBearbeitet von Legoburn: 6/13/2015 4:44:54 AMThorn requires two headshots to kill. It does not in fact outshoot a Sniper Rifle at a range where Snipers are useful. Hand Cannons in general received a nerf in the last update. There are multiple Pulse Rifles capable of killing in two bursts. The last round of weapon class tweaking was in fact intended to eliminate a "clear favorite" and fix a clear overusage of Auto Rifles and a lack of Pulse Rifle use.
