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Bearbeitet von TheBadBK:
7/17/2015 1:07:45 AM
292
The Last Word & Thorn ARE over powered
UDATE 7/16/15: [b]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/b]
One of my previous posts. I couldn't find the thread, so here it is again. Note: TLW's TTK is actually [i]lower.[/i] Ridiculous.
[b][i][u]I have over 8,000 kills with the Thorn[/u][/i][/b]
Pre-post
*The Hawkmoon is actually way more balanced than TLW/Thorn. Its stability isn't great, and its TTKC isn't completely outrageous when compared to other guns.
*I am an avid user of both guns. I want them balanced because I dislike being forced to use them in order to counter them (why I use them).
*No, I don't think other guns should be buffed to match these (if you were going to propose this, that just proves how out of line these guns are) because that would be 20x harder than simply balancing these 2 weapons.
(TTK = time to kill)
(TTKC = time to kill crit)
(ADS = aim down sights)
TLW TTKC: .56
Thorn TTKC: .36 (this is how long it takes to land two head shots. The number .36 does not account for the burn damage after the two head shots are landed.)
[url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tTMPEAOhYplzPIA4B07pBhQ/htmlview]Spread sheet[/url]
First of all, if you're one of the few people that are actually willing to take this thread seriously, take a look at that spread sheet and pay attention to the "Time To Kill Crit" column. The hand cannon class, specifically exotic hand cannons, are vastly superior to literally every other weapon except for Red Death and Vex Mythoclast. They're two tenths of a second better than every other primary, and one tenth of a second better than the Mytho & Red Death. This means that if two players, one with TLW and one with RD, are fighting head to head, and both players are using the guns to their full potential, TLW will win 100% of the time. And no, saying "well stay out of close range to avoid TLW" isn't a valid option because of the current maps.
The Last Word (TLW)
I'll start with TLW. First of all, TLW's exotic perk is broken. It's supposed to deal bonus damage when hip fired, right? Well, currently it's bugged and exploitable. Ever notice how sometimes you'll ADS with it and gain bonus damage? That's the bugged part. Sometimes it randomly decides to give you extra damage. However there's currently an exploit (or bug or whatever you want to call it. Idc about the technicality) that allows you to gain the bonus damage while ADS'd 100% of the time. And it's really easy! All you have to do is press the right trigger before you press the left trigger. Keep both pressed down and bam. 111 head shots for days (I don't mind giving this info out because the more people that do it/know it, the faster it gets patched!). This means that even at medium range TLW can achieve its .56 TTKC fairly consistently. This is specially broken for skirmish where TLW shines, even without abusing its broken perk.
Fix: The perk should obviously be fixed. I think we can all agree on that, even if you don't think exotic HCs are OP. The RoF also need to be lowered. I'm not sure how much it needs lowering, but I'll throw out a number and say 2%, giving other weapons a chance against this silly weapon.
Thorn
Thorn's TTK is a bit confusing. The chart says .36, but that isn't its true TTK if we're being technical. That time (.36) is how fast you can land two head shots, which with the Thorn's stability, isn't too hard for competent players. Of course the enemy isn't immediately dead after two head shots, they still have to burn (so they're basically zombies after two head shots). I accept the number .36 as Thorn's true TTKC because most players blink away to cover after doming someone twice. .36 is MILES above ALL other weapons. That number is better than most LMGs! And the "stay out of close quarters" is an even less valid solution to countering this gun because of its range.
If you actually read until this point then put "Read." before your response so I can take you seriously. Thanks.
Fix: Remove the perfect balance perk from Thorn's tree and reduce its RoF by around 5%.
TL;DR: No. Read the post. I'll be ignoring "git gud" type posts unless I need bumps.
"I can do good without them, so they aren't OP."
Good job! So can I. But you and I would undoubtedly do better with them.
I have a 2.35 KD overall. I have over a 4 KD in trials. I'm approaching 30 days played. As I previously stated, I have over 8,000 Thorn kills. I participate in sweaties against top players regularly. I say this not to brag, but to add credibility to myself as these stats are the only way to judge me without playing me.
English
#Destiny
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1 AntwortenRead. Fixes: remove perfect balance from both Replace with lightweight Tlw: slightly increase stability- slightly; fix ads damage Thorn: TTK has always been the same, but people used to call it underpowered. Now, with more stability, ammo per mag, and reload, it's op- set the mag to seven and *slightly* decrease reload and range. In other words, strike a balance between it's underpoweted and overpowered forms. Auto Rifles: Re-buff to 2/3 of what they were. Hand Cannons: universal *slight* range decrease Pulses still make no sense compared to ARs... They should have more stability and lower dps- it's the opposite.
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1 Antwortenjeez you are taking this game waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously
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I don't give a -blam!- about reading this. I agree they needed nerfed and that is all.
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I don't think anything else should be nerfed, things like AR's and what not should just be un-nerfed . Nerfing things has got us to where we are now complaining about things being OP. Once weapons are balanced out, thorn and last word will be easily countered with whatever
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Agreed. TTK rates that low completely ruin the PvP experience and force everyone who wants a chance at winning to use these weapons (when playing against them). However, TLW glitch is random and doesn't glitch when you hold the fire trigger before the aim trigger. I've tested and its random, or rather maybe there is a way to manipulate it but you cannot do so by following the steps you provided.
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Stop crying it's just a weapon.
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Thorn = shoot runaway, shoot runaway, then hide
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12 AntwortenTLW and Thorn are fine. So is Red Death. Everything else needs a buff though. NO NERFS!
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See, going head to head with Thorn, I never saw what all the fuss was about. Then I finally gave it a solid go to try and get the hang of it tonight (they nerfed my Vex, and my TLW is unlevelled). I did, I think I can see what people mean haha, TLW is nasty too, that thing can outgun heavies, and absolutely demolish you from ranges it probably shouldnt. I'd rather other guns were raised up to compete, but I wont be surprised if both guns are obliterated by the nerf-bat...
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Bearbeitet von TeslaDoc: 6/7/2015 1:48:28 AMRead. OP: You get it. Well stated and well argued.
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1 AntwortenBearbeitet von a clumsy scrub: 6/6/2015 11:53:38 PMEvery gun in the game against level 2s Auto rifles, pulse rifles, and scouts: 600-800 dps Hand cannons 1010-1440 dps Simply put, easy to understand. Hand cannons are OP, not just the exotics.
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4 AntwortenThe last words exotic perk gives bonus damage and stability could that be the ads high critical damage?
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Are you kidding? The new only fact that the you are so much many and as such it was would is the only best friend is the best of all of them were in the world and is a good idea to but of the best year day and night the I love it when people you I was just about to everything every day for and of itself as a result of an international conference on Tuesday.
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The Last word can kill much faster than that time you listed. If you get head shots with the hipfire bonus and Max impact it two shots. If thorn takes .39 sec to get two shots off, TLW has to be faster. That being said, I think TLW is fine. Thorn does need a nerf of some kind though, either to its stability or its aim assist. Thorn definitely fits the criteria Bungie used to nerf the shit out of the Suros, so I don't see what's keeping them from doing it.
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von MiIeHighMaNiac: 6/7/2015 12:07:07 AM( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )
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4 AntwortenMy mida wrecks them both...it must be godly OP...
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Love how you present facts and everything and people are still like: LOL IT'S NOT OP These people also happen to have Thorn equipped to one of their characters for the most part. This weapon does the Following: 60 Damage with Body Shots 84 with Head shots Can fire 5 bullets in less than 2 seconds (timed them) DoT causes 6-7 damage per tick with 5 ticks until it dissipates (meaning it add 30-35 damage to the damage you are already doing) Can achieve all of this at sniper ranges. Even with the glass half full effect on suros it would get to about 60 per bullet with crits (about 45 on body shots) which means even with effect taking place it would take 4 altered bullets hitting the head to do the normal damage that Thorn does to the body (and it's not hard to land body shots at all). This means that even if you just hit with body shots (which is extremely easy to do with any hand cannon) you have a 3 shot weapon against normal guardians. Yet, Suros is worse than Thorn is now? Hardly...
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Last word is the only good counter to thorn so if your going to use an op weapon I'll use another one.
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5 AntwortenBearbeitet von Konkuest: 6/6/2015 11:10:17 PMThe last word is not nearly as unbalanced as you say. It just has the advantage on the smaller maps due to close range superiority. Just counter it with range and your good.
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Shush im getting thorn soon!
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7 AntwortenBearbeitet von TheArtist: 5/8/2015 6:14:36 PMNo their not. Thorn is a mediocre close-quarters weapon...and can be outgunned (in the open) by a number of different mid-range weapons TLW---in the hands of most Guardians---is a mediocre hand cannon that is difficult to shoot accurately at mid-range. In fact, my Warlock was so terrible at using it in PvP, that I actually DISMANTLED my first one. Neither wepon is OP. Both weapon have glaring weaknesses that the *smart* player can exploit.l
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Very good post.
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von Erijian: 6/6/2015 9:19:50 PMI'm just baffled as to why they buffed all the previous weaknesses Thorn had. Low magazine size? Buffed to a good magazine size. Low reload speed? Buffed to a good reload speed. Low stability? Buffed to good stability.
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1 AntwortenWe know they are op.
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We know they are op.
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1 AntwortenPlease, stop these stupid ass posts!!!
