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Edited by Apex of War: 4/8/2016 1:14:34 PM
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LIVE: Crucible/Sandbox Update

[b]The stream is complete and Crucible/weapon tuning information is out. This accurately reflects as much detail as we have gotten so far.[/b] Revive timers go in increments of 7 seconds instead of 5 (ex. 7 seconds before first revive, 14 seconds before second revive). Reviving a teammate is now .25 sec slower. Reduced rez time bonus from exotic armor reduced to 30% (down from 40%). Distance to revive a teammate is closer by 0.5 meters. Revive overshield has been nerfed to allow mid impact snipers to rez snipe. Spawn into a game with special ammo in all game types. This includes having special at the beginning of all 3v3 playlists. Special ammo spawn times are 3 minutes for first special ammo crate. 2 minute timers thereafter. (nerfed) Heavy ammo only comes in at 5 minutes. No more 9min/6min/3min heavy ammo timers. Heavy ammo will still drop normally in ToO and Mayhem. Shaxx weekly quest will drop up to 335 gear. ToO bounties will reward up to 330 gear. ToO Mercury chest will drop up to 335 gear including armor (before, only weapons dropped here). There is also a new daily ToO bounty that is able to drop up to 330 gear upon completion. Iron Banner Rank 3 package will have 320 artifact and 5 package will have 320 Ghost and up to 335 gear. Iron Banner match completions will no longer reward Legendary Engrams and replace them with Legendary IB gear. ARs: High RoF - slight base damage nerf (16 head/13 body, 2.5% reduced base damage). Low RoF - slight base damage buff (27 head/22 body, 35/28 with Focused Fire, 2.3% increase base damage). PRs: Low RoF - slight base damage buff (34 precision, 23 body, 3% increase base damage. Now a 2 burst weapon with all precision shots). HCs: More reserve ammo. Fusion: Blanket stability increase. Minimum stability buffed to 40% and linear to 100% at max. Snipers: -The 3 lowest zoom distance scopes - more zoom (Shortgaze, Ambush, Longview SLR10). This is to dissuade use in CQC. -Added 2 frames of zoom time -Snapshot 20% faster instead of 30% faster zoom time. -Reduced stability. -Fixed Zen Moment bug not working on snipers. MIDA: removing High Caliber Rounds as an intrinsic perk. Suros Regime: Spinning up kicks in 4 rounds later in the magazine due to low RoF AR buff. Increased range (now +45 range) with Focused Fire, possible to reach max range in conjunction with other perk selections. Hawkmoon: +10 base range increase. This will make it more reliable to land shots at mid range. TLW: Removed damage bonus from The Last Word perk. Judging from the live play testing in the stream, it will struggle to keep up mid range against other mid range specialized weapons. Thorn: reduced DoT reduced (2 instead of 3), reduced duration of DoT (4 ticks instead of 6), reduced Burn effect on opponent screen. Will stay as a Y1 weapon. Ice Breaker: Increased scope zoom to 6x zoom. Reduced base handling to minimum for snipers. Reduced target acquisition by 25%. Death swapping special weapons no longer works. Will remain a Y1 weapon. Dreg's Promise: Tracking rounds (similar tracking to that of launchers). Damage and RoF nerfed to compensate for tracking rounds Telesto: Telesto will correctly attach to all surfaces, but will not damage teammates (glitch fix). Chaperone: Bug fix on precision damage. 1000 Yard Stare: less ammo inventory ("a couple bullets") and affected by other sniper nerfs. (Harrowed) Quillims Terminus: Reduced max ammo inventory by 15 rounds. Reduced stability by 9. Faster reload for King's Fall weapons. 12% Stability buff on King's Fall AR, Anguish of Drystan. Eye of the Storm: Now improves "error angle" in addition to accuracy, players can see reticle contract when perk activates. Icarus: 75% better accuracy while airborne, up from 66%. Aggressive Ballistics: Increased recoil (-20 stability, down from -10 stability). Swapping special weapons in a match will now completely remove your special ammo until more is found. Shotgun (5-7 rounds), sniper (5-7 rounds) reserve ammo reduced. This also affects Lord of Wolves & Queenbreaker's Bow. Reduced bonus ammo for Machine Gun Ammo bonuses on armor by 33% Reduced ammo given by heavy crates in PvP for launchers and machine guns. PvE increase in special ammo brick drops to counter reduction in reserve ammo for PvE activities. Warlocks: Sunsinger- Flameshield armor reduced, frequency reduced. Radiance Fireborn won't last as long. Firebolt/Viking funeral was not adjusted. Designer said the subclass is built on the burn and they could not change it without redesigning the subclass. Stormcaller- Landfall damage nerf (@7:50 in the YouTube link, you see where Landfall falls just short of one shotting a Warlock in Radiance. Also designer said would not pop the Titan bubble). Landfall won't blind enemies anymore. Less super duration with Transcendence. Slight damage buff to "damage to surrounding enemies" in Electrostatic Mind Voidwalker- Buff to "Vampire" abilities Titans and Hunters: No apparent changes Edit 1: YouTube link to Twitch stream now available! Edit 2: Went through parts of the stream a second time to catch things I've missed and other things that needed more clarification. Edit 3: Added details as seen in Thursday's April Update news article.
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  • Edited by Chubbums: 4/7/2016 3:31:34 PM
    9:52 Guy is using Sniper in Close range fight against an enemy hitting him with Dregg's promise. Sidearm user gets headshotted. How is this even possible with the supposed "tweaks" they implemented to force Snipers to be used in their intended range. No flinch from getting hit with a sidearm that close. Wow keep catering to the streamer douchebags bungie. Lord knows if you take away their crutch they will be less inclined to stream, meaning less advertising for your game. 10:43 from a jump into a quickscope at mid range against a Suros fire, headshots opponent with no penalty in accuracy. Lol... balanced they say...

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    • I think it's pretty clear Bungie has no idea how to weapon balance. /facepalm

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    • They litterally just nerfed as much as they could. Why not instead of nerfing everything dont they just power some of the weaker guns up to match the stronger ones?

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      • My question is, why didn't they mention any changes to the Nightfall strikes? Kept as is there rather pointless.

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      • Really?! At what point in this game have Sunsinger Warlocks ever been overpowered?! Does Bungie's idea of "balance" mean "everybody gets a turn being bent over the barrel"? Fireborn wasn't even that long to begin with!

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        • Funny how one stream about crucible balancing suddenly makes every other player forget about the awesome two streams worth of PvE content coming with the same update. Like, I've read at least three comments in this thread of people losing their crap and trying to start riots over no High Caliber Rounds for MIDA. I see now why they saved this stream for last, because they knew the ranters would not bother watching the other streams if they knew about this first XD

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          • *claps* well done, that was actually a spot on nerf from the reading

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            Can anyone tell me where the "sandbox" comes from?

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            • SUROS and Dreg's Promise is the new meta LOL

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              • And there goes the Last Word. Only decent HC left to use has become not as effective as before.

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                • Why Nerf the revive overshield? Oh, right, for Trials. Gonna be a lot of randoms not getting revived in PvE.

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                • Sigh .... Signed out Back to you

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                • This update has me completely boggled Bc it seems like bungie nerfed and changed everything that they didn't need to. For example they nerfed the multi tool and took away high caliber rounds as op just said....... Let me take a second to comprehend how ludicrous that sounds. Alright strike 1 then they nerfed a gun that was left in y1 that I haven't seen since taken king came out..... Like seriously is the thorn really even a thing how do you nerf a gun that nobody even uses. Alright that's strike 2 what other Tom foolery bs did they do they oh ya they nerfed the last word again anybody can come in here and tell how that gun is op when it's one of the most unforgiving guns in the game rn. seriously now it's starting to sound like bungie listened a group of 12 yr olds who get denied in trials every week. That's strike 3 it's official bungie in an attempt to try to listen to their fans to improve their game has unfortunately listened to the wrong crowd of fans the game didn't need more nerfs it needed buffs and this is pve wise as well and everytime You guys cry out for nerfs it's not Bc you guys think something is op it's Bc you guys get outplayed by someone using a certain weapon or subclass so in your eyes it's op and if there is a large abundance of players using said subclasses and weapons it leads to salty af players on forums raging to bungie about something being unfair when really you guys should be addressing stuff like glitches or so and so feels underpowered. Well good job all you nerf lovers and here's your reward everyone is now going to use the doctrine in pvp which is where 99.9% of the complaints come from. have fun getting t-bagged by these players

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                  • Deej mentioned during the stream that he chose the Warlock because he liked the way it looked. I feel as though many people take aesthetic into mind when picking their favorite to some extent and this needs to emphasized more so than just having a light glowing from my chest piece. Anyways, I only play hunter I and through my time I thought that short cloaks looked the nicest. Later I decided I'd give warlock a shot and also noticed that the shorter chest piece looked much cooler and same with the titan class armor. The point is that as a guardian, we should be able to do these sort of things. Why shouldn't we be able to have this option?

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                  • Some good stuff for PVP rewards, great to hear that, that player base truly deserves more. It's odd that they can balance rewards better between PVP and PVE but can't do jack when it comes to weapons. I primarily do PVE and really get tired of them messing with the subclasses and weapons to satisfy the complaints in PVP. I do some PVP and I suck, believe me I do. But I never complain about getting sniped, shot with a HMG, Mida, or a Doctrine. If I get wrecked, that's my fault for not being more aware. I use these same weapons in PVP and I still suck. Someone with a skilled hand in PVP will wreck with whatever weapon that comes about. TLW, I believe takes a skilled hand in PVP to master. Field scout was taken away, which was bad for PVE, but good for PVP, so most HMGs, had small mags in TTK, the raid HMG became popular because I think it has the highest mag in the class of weapon. That was annoying enough. But snipers and shotguns, really? Please Bungie leave the changes between PVP and PVE separate, or at least try and figure out a way to do so, I truly believe you'll satisfy at least one side of your player base.

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                    • Sooooo basically nerf everything except low rof autos and fusions. We have come full circle. The vanilla meta is back

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                      • [quote][b]The stream is complete, I was able to capture 99% of what they covered. They did say there will be more details in the upcoming weekly update.[/b] Revive timers go in increments of 7 seconds instead of 5 (ex. 7 seconds before first revive, 14 seconds before second revive). Revives are slower making quick revive gear more beneficial. Distance to revive a teammate is shorter. Revive overshield has been slightly nerfed. Spawn into a game with special ammo in all game types. This includes having special at the beginning of all 3v3 playlists. Special ammo spawn times are 3 minutes for first special ammo crate. 2 minute timers thereafter. (nerfed) Heavy ammo only comes in at 5 minutes. No more 9min/6min/3min heavy ammo timers. Heavy ammo will still drop normally in ToO and Mayhem. Shaxx weekly quest will drop up to 335 gear. ToO bounties will reward up to 330 gear. ToO Mercury chest will drop up to 335 gear including armor (before, only weapons dropped here). There is also a new daily ToO bounty that is able to drop up to 330 gear upon completion. Iron Banner Rank 3 package will have 320 artifact and 5 package will have 320 Ghost and up to 335 gear. Iron Banner match completions will no longer reward Legendary Engrams and replace them with legendary IB gear. ARs: High RoF - slight base damage nerf (16 head/13 body) Low RoF - slight base damage buff (35 head/28 body with Focused Fire that was shown in the stream which means 27 head/22 body on normal low RoF ARs) PRs: Low RoF - slight base damage buff (34 precision damage, 23 to the body. Now a 2 burst weapon with all precision shots) HCs: More reserve ammo Fusion: Blanket stability increase. Dust off those Mythoclasts ;) Snipers: -The 3 lowest zoom distance scopes - more zoom (Shortgaze, Ambush, Longview SLR10). This is to dissuade use in CQC. -Added 2 frames of zoom time -Snapshot 20% faster instead of 30% faster zoom time. -Reduced stability. MIDA: removing High Caliber Rounds as an intrinsic perk Suros Regime: Spinning up kicks in 4 rounds later in the magazine due to low RoF AR buff. More range with Focused Fire, possible to max out range with Focused Fire. Hawkmoon: Base range increase. This will make it more reliable to land shots at mid range. TLW: reduced damage bonus from The Last Word perk. 50 body shot damage, subject to a fair amount of range dropoff. Judging from the live play testing in the stream, it will struggle to keep up mid range against other mid range specialized weapons (such as ARs and PRs) Thorn: reduced DoT reduced (2 instead of 3), reduced duration of DoT (4 ticks instead of 6), reduced Burn effect on opponent screen. Will stay as a Y1 weapon. Ice Breaker: generated ammo will not carry over after death, even after switching weapons. Will remain a Y1 weapon. Sidearms: ammo will not carry over after death when switching weapons. Shotgun, sniper, machine gun reserve ammo reduced. PvE increase in special ammo brick drops to counter reduction in reserve ammo for PvE activities. Dreg's Promise: tracking rounds (may very well replace TLW based on the play testing footage) Telesto: Telesto will correctly attach to all surfaces, but will not damage teammates (glitch fix). 1000 Yard Stare: less ammo inventory ("a couple bullets") and affected by other sniper nerfs. (Harrowed) Quillims Terminus: reduced ammo inventory. Faster reload for King's Fall weapons. Stability buff on King's Fall AR. Warlocks: Sunsinger- Flameshield armor reduced, frequency reduced. Radiance Fireborn won't last as long. Firebolt/Viking funeral was not adjusted. Designer said the subclass is built on the burn and they could not change it without redesigning the subclass. Stormcaller- Landfall damage nerf (@7:50 in the YouTube link, you see where Landfall falls just short of one shotting a Warlock in Radiance. Also designer said would not pop the Titan bubble). Landfall won't blind enemies anymore. Less super duration with Transcendence. Slight damage buff to "damage to surrounding enemies" in Electrostatic Mind Voidwalker- Buff to "Vampire" abilities Titans and Hunters: No apparent changes Edit 1: YouTube link to Twitch stream now available! Edit 2: Went through parts of the stream a second time to catch things I've missed and other things that needed more clarification.[/quote] Should have removed all Raid gun usage from Crucible. H.Quillins especially. Any machine gun usage limited to only 1 clip of ammo. Rocket launcher get no more then 2 shells. Heavy ammo location is random and special ammo. Special ammo limited to one clip. Nerfed Titan melee I could go on and on. Sprint revive taken away is so stupid

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                        • Lolol servers you nerf herders right. [i]-ATullo[/i]

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                        • Here's what has happened, red death will reign supreme. And people will cry

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                          • So they lòked at all the cry baby nerfers and gave them sll they wanted bungie u sre terrible and this is from a day 1 player who has slwayd been on your side

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                            • Edited by AVERNL: 4/7/2016 9:22:54 PM
                              Outside the Raid on Hard mode is there anything in PVE that really warrants this much whining?!?! I mean....I literally do not even think which weapons I am going to use for any PVE activity and usually everything is just fine. Mida in PVE are you kidding me?! The gun was obviously designed for PVP. Do you mean to tell me that you see tons of people doing Heroic strikes with a Mida? A vast majority of players use a GO TO weapon to death because they can not be bothered to not meta and get angry when it gets nerfed. The high impact rounds do not even make sense, its an agile, light, snappy scout....not a heavy hitter. Besides, its signature perk still sets it apart. They at least tried to tweak snipers so scrubs who use them at shotgun range will be properly frustrated. The only update here that will actually make PVE noticeably frustrating is the nerfs to revive. It will be equally challenging in PVP but still. Settle down the lot of you. Hand cannons got reserve ammo so go get the best Exotic primary out there: THE FIRST CURSE. You are welcome. Edit: Thanks for the feedback.

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                              • Edited by Pocket Fox: 4/7/2016 5:48:44 AM
                                TL;DR: -Warlocks escaped any significant nerfs, and even came away with a few buffs (check recaps on YouTube, there are buffs that aren't listed in this thread). Preferential treatment confirmed, lol. -No fix for shadestep glitch/exploit (?!), and no fix for Bladedancer hit detection. -Suros Regime and high impact pulse rifles are back. Because there's absolutely nothing wrong with a max range auto rifle and a 2 burst pulse rifle (yup, absolutely nothing). -PvE players are now safe to shard their Midas. -One machine gun was a problem, so they all got nerfed. -NOW FOR THE GOOD: Hawkmoon got the range/accuracy buff it needed, TLW got the damage nerf it needed, fusion rifles got the stability buff they needed (although they'll probably mess up and nerf them instead "by accident"), Thorn nerfed, and hand cannon reserve ammo finally buffed.

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                                • Lol....All the snipers/TLW players are shitting their pants. No more cheap easy kills, kids.

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                                  • If anything this may be my favorite meta. Autos for the win ;)

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                                  • Sniper camping in pvp is heavily encouraged with this update. I hate campers Also I think they will be handing away 320 - 335 rewards too easily. You basically get 335 stuff thrown at you. I really think that is what will kinda ruin this game. I know everybody asked for it, but I believe they are making a mistake with this decision. You will now have reached full 335 on all your characters within weeks. What will you do then? But, thats my personal opinion. I personally liked the grind better.

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                                    • The Last Word is already balanced once TTK came out there was no reason to nerf it once again, getting headshots while hip-firing was no rare it was a gift when it happened. Even the sweaty community has a hard time getting headshots. The easiest way to balance firebolt and viking funeral was just reduce burn damage or how long it occurs. Bring the burn down to at least 5 or 4 with viking funeral is fine no problem, and without it it would do 3. That is how easy it is to balance something out when one tap from anything will kill you just because of the burn damage but everything else you have done is fine but the sniper scopes is a little questionable.

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