[b]1) It devalues a significant player accomplishment.[/b]
Getting the Ikelos SG during Warmind was a HUGE accomplishment for most. Not only was it crazy difficult, it also required a lot of luck to get individuals willing to assist. On top of that, the RNG was unforgiving, and many players burned 50+ attempts to obtain the weapon. All that time and effort and accomplishment has been devalued with the nerf. The shotgun today isn’t the same one that required and demanded that level of player investment.
[b]2) It cheapens the hype and anticipation associated with newly revealed weapons. [/b]
How ironic that on the day of the Black Armory reveal with all of its “awesome” new weapons and exotics, Bungie announces they are significantly nerfing one of the most iconic weapons in Destiny 2. Why? Because it was too powerful, too effective, too efficient. Yet Bungie is hyping all these new weapons in Black Armory that are supposed to be powerful, effective and efficient at killing the hordes of darkness (and a few guardians as well). The lesson is that the really good Black Armory weapons will probably also see a day in the not so distant future when they too will be nerfed. The ineffective Black Armory weapons (of which there will be many) will be left untouched. Why? Because they suck of course.
[b]3) It values clans and teams over your average solo player.[/b]
During Warmind, you needed pre-made highly coordinated teams to beat all seven levels and have a chance at getting the shotgun to drop. These streamers and high-end teams got the unnerfed version of the shotgun, and were able to use and profit from it for around 8 months. Escalation Protocol has just fairly recently become the open public event as it was advertised during Warmind. Individual guardians can now land on Mars, and join in EP with other random guardians to obtain a chance to get the weapon. This is a great thing for the game, and Mars is still super popular over 6 months after Warmind because of it. But now these randoms and solos will only be able to earn a dumbed down nerfed version of the powerful gun that others got to use for months and months. Just as more solos could gain access to the gun, Bungie makes the gun less valuable and less desirable. I think this is a dick move.
[b]4) It removes a truly memorable game experience.[/b]
Those who used the gun in all its glory these past 6 months realize the feeling of true power in a game that often tries to force the player to feel weak. Players new to the Ikelos SG will still have a good weapon, but they will never get to experience what it was like to have that AWESOME weapon.
[b]TL;DR: Nerfing the Ikelos SG might be a quick way for Bungie to solve its power creep problem, but in the big picture, the nerf is an overall bad move for most players of Destiny 2.[/b]
[b]Edit - Objections Considered:[/b]
[b]1) It's still a very good gun[/b]
I agree. But it is no longer an AWESOME gun. Imagine if Bungie nerfed Luna or Not Forgotten from AWESOME guns to just very good guns (becuse they are a little too powerful, effective, and efficient). Players would be mad as hell! Having a few really AWESOME weapons in a game that often forces the player to feel weak is a really good thing, especially in PVE. The Hive aren't going to get on the forums and bitch about the Ikelos SG 1.0.1 being top
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IMO ikelos shotty needed to be nerfed. It was out dpsing exotic heavy weapons and that is a problem. Ikelos shotty being so good made it so that it was a necessity for any top tier pve build and that was a problem. I know i have a whole season of hindsight when i make this comment, but that was the best decision bungie could have made was to put an objectively overpowered weapon in line but also keep it a very good pve option. That is why I supported the changes.
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It sucks but it needed to happen. Ikleos was not just S Tier. It was GOD TIER. It out classed everything in its slot. It was required for most content. It's still a great weapon, it's just not THE BEST weapon. This isn't a big deal bro. I got it after like 10 runs. Calm down.
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3 RepliesDude they barely nerfed it. TF is wrong with this community? Please stop using this site as a way to vent your crybaby issues.
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Barely a nerf at all. It's still the highest dmg shotty in the entire game. Plus, when y'all barrel stuff the Primeval and whatnot don't ya punch him again and again to cancel the knock back stomp anyway... :/ They essentially just made it better suited for that type of play.
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1 ReplyHeres a secret.... Its not even a nerf. It's a slowdown. Melee, shoot, shoot, shoot. Melee, shoot, shoot, shoot. Etc. It slows down DPS by a negligible amount, especially when considering melee deals slight damage as well. I honestly feel the better option would have been to either make it exotic or make it heavy. There's no reason to use any other weapon in the secondary slot; not even any of the other Ikelios weapons, so should we complain that THOSE weapons are devalued accomplishments while we're at it? In PvP it still out ranges most other shotties and in PvE, everyone still uses it and just adjusts to the pattern I mentioned before... So, what was the nerf?
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1 ReplyEdited by MindfulPizza: 12/1/2018 1:16:48 PMit still works just as good as before , what are talking about , still works just as good in pvp . in pve , with can still op bleep out bosses , just got get more creative now . yea got see if they add counter armor and gear in pvp and if the bosses have counters on that shotty . but the nerf done nothing . if change gear around. or skills around .,
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1 ReplyIt's still an exallent weapon best shot gun in the game overall with this nerf
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Ima need a bigger tankard for these tears boiiiii
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Hehhhh... I guess I should address this too. Bungie stated that the only time they would be merging anything is if the weapon starts to become a requirement. “580 Shuro Chi have EP shotty” The shotgun became a requirement, like Gjally. That is why they nerfed it. Another reason is there was very little point to running any other shotgun or energy weapon, even now. Why use a sniper that kills a boss in 5 minutes, when you can use a shotgun that kills it in 10 seconds? Last two points, Trench Barrel is still very good. Shoot 3 shots, melee, repeat. It also opens up the opportunity to add Trench Barrel to other shotguns. In fact, I would think it’s safe to say there will be another EP shotgun sometime in the future. This variant was just too strong. While I obviously do not enjoy the idea of nerfs, I believe there comes a time where it is necessary.
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8 RepliesJust melee after every 3-4 shots. Yeesh....as if you are to lazy to play.
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2 RepliesIf a legendary is doing ALOT more damage than exotics in the same class. We have a problem kid. Git over it.
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They nerfed things long before Ikelos SG was even a thing. No bullets needed: this is nothing new.
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Personally, loved the gun for all of one month. Then all I got was people asking me why I wasn’t running it and people flat out requiring me to equip it. Glad it’s dethroned from Delete Button to just strong shotgun.
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This shouldn’t surprise anyone, Bungie has been doing this since D1, and they nerf many things that are beneficial in PvE only. It’s part of the reason I don’t get too excited for anything that drops anymore.
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Still don’t care too much, it functions just fine if you can count to 3. And there is a problem if I’m actively weakening myself by a large margin by removing a gun. I used it for literally all the content in Forsaken, there wasn’t another option on equal footing
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I see your point that this was kinda a slap in the face to some but I think the real reason they did it was to make it so the ep shotgun was the only choice. They could buff all other shotguns but that could see problems By bugging all other shotguns you could basically create a worse problem. This is because anybody can really get the ep shorting with a little rng but by buffing all other shotguns anyone with a god roll on a dusk rock blues is instantly more powerful than most making it even harder beat such a weapon. It’s also like you said the gun is still good it’s just that it opens up a wider range of weapon choices
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3 RepliesIt needed to happen, as it devalued most other choices in that slot. Now you can use other options without feeling as if you are hindering your team.
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You are a really stupid person. It takes nothing to get. It's an easy gun to use and doesn't promote diversity. I still use other shotguns and wreck everything, so who cares. Bungie has to nerf things that stand alone. If everybody is using the same gun, it needs to be nerfed. Get outside more if your life is ruined because of a nerf to a gun in a game
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Edited by BlewGhost: 12/1/2018 8:20:22 PM[quote][b]3) It values clans and teams over your average solo player.[/b] During Warmind, you needed pre-made highly coordinated teams to beat all seven levels and have a chance at getting the shotgun to drop. These streamers and high-end teams got the unnerfed version of the shotgun[/quote] Let's tone it back bud. Open the Destiny app, go to Fireteams, join a group called "EP need X amount of players", profit. What coordination was there. Tell me. This is all what EP was at that time. [spoiler]•2 at minimum Orpheus Rig Nightstalkers spamming Shadowshot on every ad possible. •Mindlessly shooting ad's until rifts spawned. •Stand in rift and shoot crystals. •Kill Knights and pickup Hive Sword. •Spam heavy attack on every ad possible until boss spawns. •1 or 2 Titans constantly apply Melting Point and Tractor Cannon to the boss. •Rest of the people dump 800 rockets onto the boss[/spoiler] If you did the boss farm glitch, you just simply killed said boss when the timer hit 0. You get the boss to a pixel of its health bar, then sit there waiting for the timer to strike 0. WOW SUCH EFFORT AND COORDINATION. The process could be done if every person was a random from lfg and had their mic muted. Not much input was actually required to farm EP back in Warmind.
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To all your points, I say "Get a life".
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Edited by TheRockinDragon: 12/2/2018 4:34:58 AMGetting carried through EP isn't a significant player achievement. Half the players that got it don't even know how to kill EP bosses, they just stand on the conjure circles and shoot the crystals then stand there being useless on the boss. It devalued the energy slot as a whole because nothing else was worth using. It was broken and I fully expected it to be useless after warmind and its glory days. It didn't deserve to last that long in forsaken either. Glad i can finally use something else. Stop acting like a pathetic side activity warrants giving the best gun in the game, better than exotics or the raid even. It should have been left behind like all the best guns in D1 when they made DLC that made every old gun obsolete.
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I think it’s fine. This “massive accomplishment” accumulates to rng (I got my third try) and the reaction of people who get it nowadays is still huge. It’s still pretty fantastic, it’s just not setting the expectation that every single new special weapon has to kill strike bosses in mere seconds. It’s gonna suck short term here (especially with that morgeth bug and I’m still pissed about it), but I’m excited to have something else in my energy slot for a change.
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I disagree with your saying you needed a pre-made, coordinated team. I got all of the weapons, on both consoles, solo. I just played with whomever was there. Only my first time did I play with my clan and I didn't get anything, we must've played that shit for eight hours lol...
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It was an exotic tier weapon without being an exotic. It was the pve meta weapon for a VERY long time and was really the only option for a secondary weapon. Now (2 expansions later) it's no longer the only option. It's not the first time a nerf changed the meta and it certainly wont be the last.
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Your first point is rng. You have no idea how mad my friend was who had to grind 67 escalation protocalls to get, when one friend got it on his first. There was no accomplishment. Only the one friend yelling bullshit at the other one for his stupid luck. Rng is not a good solution to anything. And if you couldnt see how bad that gun was for the game your blind. When you are forced to use a certain thing because everything else cant keep up then there is a problem. That goes for every game. When something is so strong it overshadows anything and everything it needs to be brought down. But I do agree bungie needs to do a lot better with boss design, boss encounters and pretty much everything else boss related. But o well kingdom hearts comes out soon so I'll be on that
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2 RepliesPersonally, trying Merciless. That thing is seeing a resurgence. Oh yeah and I wouldn’t call rolling the dice a significant player accomplishment.