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Edited by LordZoltan:
3/9/2018 4:27:23 AM
44
I made a post about what abortion is
I made a post about what abortion is and I received quite a few responses.
I want to talk about those in favor of abortion. Most in favor of abortion felt the need to express to me that abortion is just the removal of a clump/cluster of cells.
They don't talk about an embryo or a fetus. Nope. And when I brought up the embryo or fetus I was promptly told that an embryo/fetus is not alive. That it doesn't match the criteria for life or sentience. And so it is ok to remove it from the womb.
I was also told that most, if not all, abortions are performed on low wage earners or poverty stricken women. And that removing the clump of cells will prevent a life of poverty. So the abortion is actually a good thing.
Anytime God was brought up, the pro abortion types made it clear that God doesn't exist and therefore there is nothing to be concerned about on that end.
I was accused of having a desire to "force my opinion on others". And that I seek to control other people's lives and bend them to my will.
And this happens every single time abortion is brought up.
It's as if they are reading from a script or they're an NPC in a simulation who are incapable of thinking for themselves.
That doesn't apply to everyone. So please don't perceive this as an attack. Just an observation on my part.
And it seems to me that they say these things in order feel better about abortion. Let me say that again, they say these things in order to FEEL better about abortion.
That is my opinion, so don't get your undies all bunched up and twisted about my opinion.
They want to make it seem like it is so clinical and safe. It's just a procedure, nothing more. Which seems rather unemotional to me. If it is so unemotional, then why do they need to feel good about it?
What is the big deal about saying that abortion is the termination of human life at its earliest stages?
What is wrong with saying that? Yes I would like an answer. I need your opinion.
I am not talking about killing babies. I am not talking about murder. I am talking about the termination of human life at its earliest stages. Stages that every single one of us had to go through in order to be born. We all have that in common. Every single one of us.
Would it not be better to just be honest with ourselves?
" hey where are you going?"
" oh I'm just headed to the doctor's to terminate the life growing inside of me"
" oh okay,. Well have fun with that be safe. Call me afterwards if you need me."
Why must people use euphemisms to cover up the truth? Yes I would like an answer.
English
#Offtopic
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7 Replies
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I think there's an important distinction to be made between life and sentience. Any bundle of reproducing cells fits the broad definition of life, but it takes a good deal more to achieve sentience. A human fetus, while both human and alive, isn't self aware or, arguably, a person. If you want to get theological and introduce the concept of some sort of immortal soul, things get messy. But from a more grounded point of view, things are pretty clear. Abortion ends life, but it doesn't end a person. Rather, it ends the [i]potential[/i] of a person. I don't think anyone would say that's a good thing all by itself, but I'm of the opinion that the wants and needs of the mother outweigh those of the non-sentient bundle of cells carried inside of her. As far as why people choose to speak in euphemisms and avoid direct conversation on the topic, there's a couple things that come to mind. It's a pretty polarizing topic, and most people would prefer to keep conversations which could endanger relationships to a minimum. For those who had a lot of difficulty reaching the decision to get an abortion, skirting the topic probably acts as a coping mechanism to deal with any sort of regret/guilt/shame. I think it's important that people understand what's happening and to not take it lightly, but I understand why these euphemisms exist.
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1 ReplyMy [b]n[/b]igga if someone wanna have an abortion they aren’t gonna take very good care of children. Stop over complicating things. Overpopulation is real, let people kill babies if they feel the need to kill babies
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2 RepliesEdited by SnR_Snipez45: 3/11/2018 3:34:08 PMWhat’s wrong about saying that is that it’s not life. An embryo isn’t alive yet. So you can’t say you’ve terminated a life whenever you take an embryo out of your body. It is quite literally a clump of cells. You drop dead skin cells on everything you touch.
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1 ReplySo you wouldn't support in-vitro? If you are making the argument that abortion is destroying life in the earliest stages then you cannot consistently support in-vitro logically without admitting to drawing a arbitrary line in the sand. What makes killing a month old fetus wrong but killing a fertilized embryo not? In-virto kills literally millions of fertilized embryos or aka life in the earliest stage. The other thing is simply not being a hypocrite and holding a double standard or at least recognizing that there is a double standard. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy]Very few Pro-lifers accept abortions past the 22 week period.[/url] With this in mind what is the cognitive ability of a 22 week old fetus? [url=http://brainmind.com/FetalBrainDevelopment.html]This study basically shows that it is just starting to grasp the ability for the basics of homeostasis like breathing. It is infeasible for it to have any awareness. [/url] Now lets look at the cognitive ability of a fully grown cow which we have no problem killing nonchalantly. [url=http://animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/17/AB&C_2017_Vol4(4)_Marino_Allen.pdf]This study show that cows are actually more advanced then we previously thought. [/url] Can you see the double standard? How is one suppose to navigate this and be as consistent in their beliefs as possible with this glaring problem? Is your argument valid that it is immoral to terminate a life that has the potential to be a full human individual? Yes. There is a counter argument for that but it is still a valid point. However to ignore the equally valid points for why abortion is moral is avoiding a constructive discussion on the matter. I use to be anti-abortion and I use to use the argument, "they only say that to make themselves feel better," until I realized I was avoiding a much broader perspective that held as much validity as my own position. I see more deflecting in what you wrote than any actual evidence for why abortion is immoral.
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1 ReplyWell tbh all the stuff u said at the beginning is true and if u want to hear it because it makes u FEEL better sure it's terminating human life at its earliest stages.
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Accurate. It’s the same rhetoric Americans used to justify slavery. “They aren’t human.” Humanity needs to justify themselves because they’re too afraid to admit the evil that lies in their heart.
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2 RepliesI don't think that abortion is one of those things that people take lightly when they want/need to get one. I haven't met anyone who says they want to get an abortion just because they want it as birth control or to make themselves feel better. The choice to get an abortion is already seen as stigmatizing socially, and some of the more toxic people who are pro-life will go out of their way to make the person receiving the abortion feel like shit. The toxic pro-lifers should honestly stop blaming the victim and view the other factors that have led up to the abortion - Was the person -blam!-? Did the rapist grow up in an environment that was toxic? Did the rapist grow up being praised for all of their actions, etc. I've already seen some of these toxic pro-lifers in these forums, which I'm not surprised that they hang out here, tbh. I know that many of the pro-lifers in this forum aren't bad people, but they should wrangle in the ones who are giving pro-lifers a bad name. That stereotype about pro-lifers at an abortion clinic parodied by Tosh.0 is the stereotype that I'm talking about, and the people who are pro-life should keep the toxic ones on a leash, because their opinion can represent the Pro-Life movement, even if their opinions don't. Personally, if I had an SO that decided to get an abortion, I'd weigh in the options for why they wanted to get one: Are we financially stable, do we live in an area that isn't safe for children, are we ready for the responsibility of children, is my SO's life at risk if she carried to term, and what would our families say about us having children? Ultimately, I'd support my SO's decision, if the benefits outweighed the consequences. I still hold to my belief that I don't consider fetuses alive until after the first trimester, which, at that point, it's considered alive because it satisfies all of the characteristics of life as defined by Biology. I'll definitely agree with people if they say that my belief sounds heartless, because it is. It's objective and I don't add any of my emotions into it. It's meant to be heartless and straight to the point if I want to keep my view on the development cycle as objective as possible. I'm not going to ding any good-intentioned pro-lifer's opinion about abortion, because I know how it feels to have those same sentiments - I'm a Catholic and being pro-life is pretty big in Catholicism. I also don't want to be the person that dictates how someone lives their life.
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10 Replies"Abortion" is in no way a euphemism. I'd argue it's actually a dysphemism, since no one uses the word in real-life settings due to the offence it causes. Calling it the ""termination of human life in its earliest stages" isn't a thing, not because of euphemisms, but because of simplification. It's the same reason no one refers to a wolf as "earliest evolved form of canines that hunt in packs and have sharp teeth."
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2 RepliesI would terminate human life if I didn't have the necessary Keesh to support a family. I would terminate human life if I was -blam!- and impregnated. I would terminate human life if I didn't want a kid. Then again, I'm not stupid enough to forego protection when intimacy strikes. "But muh beliefs and morals" One less leech suckling the teat of earthly resources, I say.
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2 RepliesAnd what is wrong with saying that abortion is the termination of human life at its earliest stages is that there is a difference between a life and a living thing. Yes a foetus is a living thing, but little more than a virus. It's a thing that is alive, but its lack of consciousness is all people are addressing when people say "it's not alive." Perhaps this explanation is one of my worst.
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12 RepliesBump. If I'm not mistaken, generations ago abortion was considered something to be ashamed of, even by those who would choose to get one. Now people act as though it's something to be celebrated
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<Humans are still parasites.>
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3 RepliesListed here are the six rules used by scientists: Living things are made of cells. Living things obtain and use energy. Living things grow and develop. Living things reproduce. Living things respond to their environment. Living things adapt to their environment. utahscience.org
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2 RepliesAbort this 😎🖕
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5 RepliesI'd say the main problem is unsafe sex. People don't care about consequences, and they don't want to care. Safety should be a priority. If you don't want one, use protection. It can fail, yes, but take precautions for heavens sake.
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MAD CUZ BAD
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12 RepliesThis post is the definition of triggered.
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5 RepliesYou seem offended that people hold opinions different from your own.
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1 ReplyYou made an opinion post, about what you think abortion is. Now you're making a whinge post because you don't like people don't share your opinion. "The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!" -Brian Cox.
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1 ReplyNo man should have any say what so ever in abortion, no religion or ideology should either. It rests solely on the individual woman. No ifs, no buts. It's her body, her rules. Simple as that.
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4 Replies[quote]What is the big deal about saying that abortion is the termination of human life at its earliest stages? [/quote] But it's fine for you to have a wank and then wipe your dick on the towel killing all thensperm that could have grown into a child. Masterbation is the earliest stage of termination.
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13 RepliesBecause it isn't the truth in my eyes. I Don't consider that stage of growth a stage of life; the fetus is not sentient, cannot perceive or consider or evaluate. It is not terminating a human life because It's not a human life, as it is not sentient.
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3 RepliesBecause if there’s truth, there’s falsity. And if falsity, consequence for ignoring the truth. If consequence, then there are expectations for how we’re supposed to live life. If there’s an expectation, there’s a standard. If there’s a standard, there must be something that gives that standard its existence outside of human rule. If there’s something that gives expectation outside of human rule, there’s accountability. And if we have to account to that something for what we’ve done, we realize we won’t pass the examination because we’ve ignored the standard. So we lie. We change words. We try to rewrite the rules so we can do what we want. [quote] And Jesus said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”[/quote] But the good news is that Christ can wipe your slate clean. He can pass the exam for you. He gives you his expectation and helps you live up to it. Whatever you’ve done, however much shame it brings you, can be thrown away in an instant. You don’t have to live like you’re dying inside anymore. [quote]You will know the truth, and the truth [i]will set you free.[/i][/quote]
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3 RepliesWhat I find funny about the liberals is that they never can claim responsibility that they feel good or bad about killing a "bunch of cells" even though it is going to be a human. They sound like robots just feeding off of whatever they get told.
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1 ReplyFetus we’re hungry
