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Edited by iCade203:
6/30/2016 1:37:21 PM
77
Why all the Hate about snipers?
PREFACE: This Post is extremely long but i strongly urge you to read it if you say these things listed in the first paragraph.
So to my knowledge, people are getting PRETTY salty about snipers. On one hand, people are insulting people left and right about hardscoping, on the other, people are saying they take no skill to use, or are extremely easy to use. On my third hand, I see people insulting snipers by their aim assist values. I will be addressing all of these issues in this one post, so you are not mislead.
So, first thing first. Aim Assist. Just to clarify, if you go on any shooter, it has this function. The reason for this is because in real life, you have more control over a gun than you do in a game. If there was no aim assist, you really couldnt hit anyone. If you dont believe me, go into a crucible match and try to shoot at your team mates. Pretty hard right? Thats because they dont have aim assist. Imagine playing like that in a crucible game, without aim assist. Almost no one would get kills. We clear on that? Ok. So what aim assist does is, if you havent already noticed, slows down your reticle while moving over a target because of the reasons stated above. It does NOT "pull" your bullets towards your enemies. It may every once in a while pull the reticle towards a target, but more often then not, that works against the sniper because it throws the aim off. Now that we re clear what aim assist does and what it is, and WHY its in the game, (in most shooters on every gun including destiny) We can now dive into the TRUE realm of salt that i will be conquering tonight.
Aim Assist on snipers... So. The difference in aim assist from one gun to another doesnt matter. People dont chose the 1000 yard stare for the sole reason of high aim assist, they choose it for reasons more deep than that. They might choose it because it has a good RoF, Can 1 Shot headshot most supers, and can Even have great perks. If you dont believe me, look at PlanetDestiny, TrueVanguard, All of the popular destiny youtubers, and they will all, for the most part, agree with me. ( Dont choose youtubers who dont snipe, because their opinion could be biased, and therefore invalid.) Besides, The difference in aim assist from the defiance of yasmin to a sniper that really has low aim assist, lets just say, the LongBow. I dont know the aim assist value, but just stick with me. Lets just call it 39. The defiance sitting up in the 60s-70s, thats a big jump. But if you go onto patrol, i guarantee you wont notice a difference in the speed of the reticle from one sniper to another. Now that you have Physical evidence, you know that sniper aim assist difference doesnt matter. (Aka Defiance of Aim Assist is not a reasonable claim) NEXT.
The argument about snipers taking no skill. Okay, this is not even a reliable argument with evidence in the LEAST. Ever gun takes skill, even if we get mad when killed by it, and the person is using an OP weapon. 90% of the players i play with that make this claim, use a shotgun as a main. 500- kills with a sniper. For those of you that use a sniper and still disagree with me, for a sniper to be a 1HKO, it has to be a headshot unless, 1. The target is already weak 2. The opponent is using a high impact sniper with weapons of light. 3. Eireen RR4 Litc.
Now, if you think about it, the head is a slim figure on the scope, and you MUST hit that, when your opponent is either 1. Moving. 2. Shooting you 3. Both 4. Or standing still, not shooting.
. (Honestly, never do that. Youre a sitting duck. They literally cant miss you. Also, if thats the case, dont cry nerf, or complain. That was on YOU)
Thats pretty darn hard to do in situation 1,2, and three.
Now, when you think about it, from your perspective of a shotgun rusher, the enemy takes up a good 70% of your screen. Pretty darn hard to miss. The only thing hard about using a shotgun is closing the gap, which is easy to do on CQC maps. Another thing, if you are one of the shotgunners still on this forum, who complain, you most likely go into WAY too many open lanes where a sniper could be. Dont do that. Usually, the flinch doesnt matter, on shotguns, either, because shotguns dont receive bad flinch. So compared to snipers, shotguns are childs play. Not saying anyone who uses them has no skill, just saying they are unrefusably easier to use than snipers.
Now, Finally, the final sea of salt i have seen, major, at least, HARDSCOPERS. Ah, the subject of scoping in, waiting, usually camping, and 1HKOs everything. Now, i have plenty to say about this. Remember near the taken king year one where you all said "Snipers handle too fast. Need nerf now." ? Before you say, well i wasnt a nerf poster, chances are if you complain about snipers, youve complained about other things before. We are all gamers. We all do it. Dont give me that excuse. Now, when you all requested that nerf, that discouraged quickscoping from snipers because they usually couldnt handle good enough.
[Now, handling stat increase means a decrease in the swap time of a weapon, ads time, and reload (maybe?) time. Just to clarify THAT. Dont believe me? Look in the june patch notes where they explain handling stats. ]
Another thing, snipers werent meant for close range to begin with. (Now, me personally, aggressive, ish sniper. So im not just "defending my hardscopes". )Snipers were made for safely engaging guardians from a long way away, and eliminating them quickly. You want people to only kill you when they rush you? Thats what a shotguns job is. Eliminating guardians at close range effectively. So, complaining about this is not only 1. Something you brought upon yourselves , but also , 2. Goes against the whole purpose of the weapon. Thats like saying melees should kill from scout rifle range. Its going against the design of the weapon. Now, please, go into the crucible and STOP complaining on the forums about snipers! This information is all backed up!
Sources:
Destiny Companion App
PlanetDestiny
TrueVanguard
Myself
Bungie.net
PlanetDestiny.com
Destiny
Several CREDIBLE sources. Not anything like wikipedia. (If you get info from there, that is not credible, as anyone can edit it, not just experts. Since that info is not credible, it it invalid until supported by credible sources.) That is all Guardians.
EDIT: Wow really reeling in the salt guys! Keep up the good work! At this rate yall might be funny!
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Simple. They are overused and they slow down the crucible. Shotguns speed up game play, but are very far from COD as you so seem to think. Play BO3 for a little and you'll see what I mean. People always say stay out of sightlines if dont want to get sniped, well if 4 out of the 6 players on a team are watching 4 different sightlines then it is impossible to move around the map. There is a skill to sniping, dont get me wrong. But with such low risk and such high reward for simply staring down sightlines is absurd. Snipers are the most effective tools at keeping players dead in 3v3 game modes, killing supers, and generally just beating out every primary in the game (mostly due to every primary being weak). Since you dont like fast paced gameplay, buffing primaries is out of the question. So snipers receiving a change is the only solution. More flinch from primaries and a slight scope sway is needed. Destiny is the only game in which sniping is so prevalent with the exception of COD, and the only reason they are so heavily used in COD is because all the pro teams revolved around abusing an auto aim mechanic (i.e. Quickscoping). Sniper Rifles in Destiny are widely used because they are easy to use and are the best option. Anyone who plays Overwatch will know that very few people choose to play Zenyatta, not because he is a bad hero, but because he is very difficult to play. Not even the professional Overwatch players use Zenyatta. You cant tell me that Destiny's sniper rifles attract god tier level snipers because they take an exceptional level of skill to use.
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These posts that claim "sniper are the best players" are just annoying. Yeah, I get one shotted by a sniper now and then, but atleast half the time I engage a sniper at range, I kill him with my scout rifle. "Shotguns are much easier to use" No, they aren't, but you play differently. You need to move more and engage at "slapping range", so the odds of getting team shot or supered is higher. Yes, the target is bigger, but you have no scope, plus they know you are there and are either attacking or running, so you get less time to react. The sniper rifles aren't the problem. It's the players. When you get 4 guys sniping from the same spot, it makes for a really boring match. Yeah, they move now and then, usually after getting killed, and start over somewhere else. The second part of the issue is the map designs. Some of the maps are just bad. You can say I am salty, but honestly; these posts annoy me way more than the snipers have ever done.
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12 RepliesAwful post... If you actually think there is no noticeable difference between high and low AA snipers, you're seriously misguided or inexperienced. Take off the longbow or defiance of Yasmin, equip an efrideet's with ambush, and try to pull off the same ridiculous drag scopes. Not saying its infinitely harder but the difference is 100% noticeable and it takes a significant adjustment. The fact that you said not to listen to youtubers that don't snipe because they might be biased made me laugh out loud. Of course they're biased, but then again so are people that snipe who desperately try to prove how much skill it takes. Sound familiar? Your argument for why shotguns take less skill than snipers is just so bad. Sniping is low risk, high reward. Sit back in your spawn and watch a doorway or any kind of lane/ chokepoint with your sniper at head level. Basically free kills. I really don't care what you say, its really not hard for any semi decent or even below average player to hit headshots like this, which is why 90% of the teams you play in trials sit in their spawn in head glitches. The only time you need to pull out your primary is to clean up a body shot. On the other hand, if you're using a shotgun, you need to be using your primary. I can't even fathom the number of times I have experienced personally or seen someone strafing and shooting a sniper with their primary only to get domed by a negative KD retard sitting in his spawn. Its nearly impossible to challenge a sniper with a primary nowadays. Shotguns themselves are insanely inconsistent, every now and then only doing like 50% damage or occasionally doing absolutely nothing. Anyone who uses a snotty can recall a few times where you point blank shoot someone in the chest and your buckshot disappears into time and space. Trying to close the gap against a team of players sitting in spawn with their fingers glued to LT can be... Frustrating to say the least. What do I do? I shotgun and snipe, roughly equally. So I guess you can say I'm less biased than you or the sources you listed, but either way I really don't care.
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4 RepliesI like that people blame other players for overusing snipers...when it's really because 1. They are easy to use 2. They can kill off res from any distance, and shutdown supers in one hit. 3. They can easily counter [i]any[/i]primary at almost any range in the right hands. 4. Primaries in destiny kinda suck right now. 5. They are low risk/high reward. Basically the point is they are somewhat screwed up in destiny vs primaries or even other specials. Never seen a good, logical arguement as to not use snipers in pvp. The problem is bungie, not the people who use them.
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Edited by Whoppenheimer: 7/7/2016 7:15:50 AMThe only games that take skills and have nearly aim assist of sniping is CS Go, Battlefield 4 and 1 and Arma 3. Hell even Metro 2033 which is a single player game takes more skill than this shit
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12 RepliesONLY BAD PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT SNIPERS. SIMPLE AS THAT.
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-blam!- sniping its dumb easy [spoiler]i have a lot more to say thats actual shit but i don't want to type it so that'll do pig[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesAim assist is just too high. All snipers should have the same value as the Eirene SR4 (~20) instead of the 60+ of the meta snipers. This makes drag scopes too easy.
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I just assume that around every corner a sniper could lurk and try to play accordingly.
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I'm just happy you actually used paragraphs. [spoiler]I hate snipers[/spoiler]
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I'm not complaining about snipers. The sniper is an effective weapon in the right hands. My hands are not the right hands. I played a few games of elimination yeaterday, and every team I came up against had at least one guy who was a really good sniper. Like instantly, the moment they had line of sight with me, it was instant headshot and I'd die. Most of the time, I hadn't even seen my attacker. One guy was even jumping over a doorway while I was on the other side of the door as the door was opening. While in the air, he saw the door opening, turned and headshot me with his sniper before he landed his jump. Was I frustrated? Yeah. I was. I felt like even more of a noob than I already do. But I'm not salty, I just came up against guys who were really good with snipers. I got outplayed, I couldn't adjust my tactics to adapt, and I got sniped a lot. That's how it goes sometimes. No need for salt.
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Edited by Racebum: 7/7/2016 6:31:45 AMIt's the slow campy game play. Not so much the sniper. It's how they are used. They should have never decreased the flinch on mida. It was a good counter
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I stopped reading at "aim assist is why you can't shoot teammates"
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Edited by ImDaBeInEr: 7/7/2016 5:40:03 AMWellll Let's take year 1 in consideration Thorn Yes it sucked it could double tap you and finish you It had incredible range What was wrong with it It was overused Like snipers are now Everyone said everything else got nerfed to the point that 3 Handcannons ( 2 for xbox😔) reigned supreme Now in year 2 Shotguns were nerfed Snipers became the best option They reigned supreme Sure shotguns were good But not what they were Snipers can kill a roaming super They can rez snipe, Not a big issue to me but the fact that they are in every lobby; therefore, every player sniping in a match makes it slow, boring, and not very fun. A counter to snipers are Scout rifles but Players have to change their loadout cause of a sniper. Nothing about snipers are OP AA everything has it Low flinch ( yes annoying but If they pull of that head shot I'll be salty, but impressed ) Overused is what gets me The only snipers that are used in crucible Are long bow, 1k stare, There's more options but people decide to use those. If there was more specials than 1k, long bow, party crasher, and conspiracy theory It would be a fun and enjoyable crucible. To an extent.
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Do me
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1 ReplySomewhere in here do you cover the lack of flinch from most all weapons when being fired upon? Pretty sure shaxx is turning into Oprah if not....Headshot for you! Headshot for you! Headshots for everyone ! You put up some good info tho.
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3 RepliesEdited by Moof Juice: 7/5/2016 12:33:53 AMUhh hate to burst your bubble but the longbow has an incredibly high base aim assist, one of the highest in the game(68 I believe). Similar to the defiance of Yasmin. So of course you wouldn't notice a difference. If you want low aim assist, look at E-spear, or eirene rr4. Or even a high ROF low impact sniper like tao Hua yaun. The problem is the 1 kys/ldr5001/longbow archetype of snipers. They have the most aim assist by a big margin, They can OHK roaming supers. They can rez snipe They deal good body shot damage for cleanup, and they have a decent rof for follow up shots.
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3 RepliesYou said it's hard to get a kill without aim assist, it's slightly more difficult, well you have to get used to it. I snipe in cod (yea cod sucks, whatever) and there's no aim assist on snipers in bo3, I think destiny should just completely take away aim assist on snipers. It's working for cod, why not destiny?
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3 RepliesShotguns are easy to use for sure especially because most maps in destiny play to there advantage. But at the same time snipers can sit in some reaallllyyy nasty headglitches and 2shot kill people without being shot at all and since special is everywhere they can do this all they want and the flinch i personally think needs working if you walk out from a wall hardscoping and i hit you with a scout you shouldn't be able to counter you should have to pick a better encounter.
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I'm not complaining at all. But when I body shot a guy who barely got grazed by a grenade for like 23 damage and he dies from that body shot, I feel kinda bad for him. I think 167 might be a little steep for a sniper body shot. It would totally hurt my bladedancer Quickdraw playstyle if they nerfed the body shot damage on high impact snipers, but I do have to admit even against tougher players I can get some easy kills with sniper body shots.
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This has been written about and answered almost a hundred times already. I wish someone would package all the old topics into one literary format for everyone to see thus avoiding the same topics over and over again. Your not alone in this unfortunately. The argument for The Lighthouse being for everyone was rehashed again yesterday for the 100th time with the same for and against arguments. It's like watching history where the new kid believes his claim to the argument is the first of its kind not realizing that it has been done countless times before. It's getting to the point now that I can longer depend on these forums for good toilet material . Sad state of affairs I would say .
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The quick TTK of Pulse rifles and Hand cannons in year 1 really kept Snipers in check. People really had to think whenever they scoped in, one wrong move and they die. In today's meta, if you make a wrong move you get plenty of chances since the guns just tickle you to death. Right now only another good sniper counters a good sniper. People don't want to be forced in to a play style they don't enjoy in order do somewhat well in the crucible. I will agree, Thorn and TLW were borderline OP, a slight nerf to them and SGs,a buff to AR and small buff to scouts was all we needed. Of course Bungie overdid it and we are in the shitfest we are in today.
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Edited by LADYSIKK: 7/5/2016 8:37:59 AMIt's because that's all people seem to use now, well before I lost Internet almost whole fireteams would use nothing but sniper rifles and nothing else. It gets pretty annoying when you get shot by nothing but sniper rifles every pvp match. I miss when there was weapon variety in matches, I don't know what about anyone else's opinion though.
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1 ReplySnipers need a lot more flinch.
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1 ReplyI think there should be more flinch but I don't know how the mechanic could be added without just ruining them, at least at first. I feel comfortable with a shotgun and I like to rely mostly on my primary. Until they "balance" snipers the best way that I will deal with them is by trying not to be an obvious target and making smart decisions about when and how to engage if at all. Other than that, I don't feel like they kill me more than anything else... they might but I don't know. The point is, if I challenge a sniper and I land a headshot and I still get domed, it is my fault for trying to do it again when I know it will happen.
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Why all the hate about MIDA? Why all the hate about striker? Snipers, MIDA Multi-tool, and striker were all basically untouched from destiny launch up until now. Because of them being untouched and everything else being nerfed, these things are left at the top to dominate crucible.
