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Edited by SirEman80:
6/25/2025 3:38:03 AM
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There is so much wrong here…
1) Talking about Hunters not being able to use DODGE to build is just straight up asinine dumb. Trying to talk like that destroys whatever sympathy you are looking for. It is the single most busted centerpiece of buildcrafting in the game. EVERY Hunter builds around the stuff Hunters get from dodge
2) If you are building into GRENADE as a Hunter (outside of niche Stasis options), you are struggling mentally. Talked about it on another thread like this… listed all the options for Hunter grenade builds and that actually deserves a complaint because their are few and they are bad.
3) I’ve asked this question several times and no one gives an answer… WHY [u]should[/u] Hunters get an INTRINSIC perk to refund an ability? Titans and Warlocks don’t and never have… they have to build into it using exotics (Skullfort for example).
4) What COMPARABLE incentive is there for Warlocks or Titans to invest into the Class ability stat?
These questions get a little closer to the heart of Bungie’s thought process here IMHO.
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How bout picking up your little hammer for a free melee? So sit down and think on that titan and eat some more crannons.
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That hammer will also be affected by the ability regen changes.
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1) the argument was about Gambler’s Dodge free refunding ANOTHER ability to make what is basically a free loop… not an ability sustaining itself 2) Bonk Hammer has been nerfed so hard it’s barely useable… and it never refunded ANOTHER ability… and it had a -blam!- cooldown if you missed picking it up. Most Titan abilities have -blam!- cooldowns even with investment. Most Hunter mains I know balked when they tried a Titan specifically because the ability loop SLOW comparatively
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[quote]3) I’ve asked this question several times and no one gives an answer… WHY [u]should[/u] Hunters get an INTRINSIC perk to refund an ability? Titans and Warlocks don’t and never have… they have to build into it using exotics (Skullfort for example).[/quote] Are we just going to blatantly ignore the fact that Titans for literal years got free movement tech via shoulder charges that fully refunded the melee if you failed to connect with an enemy (and still get a partial refund even now) [u]WITHOUT[/u] the use of exotics, aspects or fragments? Or the fact that Warlocks get to intrinsically hang on to threadlings to use at a more convenient time (at least on Strand and Prismatic, if not all subclasses via guns). And in the past, Warlocks were the only class intrinsically able to 'eat' or super charge their grenades (they can still do so without exotics, though via aspects now, but still). But sure, Warlocks and Titans [i]never[/i] got or have anything special.
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I see what you're saying but if you're not running the strand super the threadlings don't perch even with guns or thread grenade on priz...
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Warlocks hang on to threadlings? Well guess what, genius, Hunters get 2 grapples by default, and can create grapple points using their own grapples.
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1) Talking about Shoulder Charge as a comparison to Dodge utility is laughable. It’s so weak in PvP now that people actively try to not even use it as a MELEE ability and it’s potential in PvE is solely dependent on 1-2P finicky builds that are insanely inconvenient. And it doesn’t refund another ability for free… which is the whole problem with Gambler’s (and has been a problem I’ve been mentioning for A LONG time - it’s part of the reason Hunters have been so hard to balance) 2) It’s never been about Titan and Warlock not getting cool things to do… it’s about Hunters circumventing the cooldown economy for FREE and how that’s not good for the game…overcharging grenades doesn’t refund rifts or melee… plopping down barricades doesn’t refund grenades or melees. They can BUILD to make them faster/better but they’ve always had to give up something else where Hunters didn’t (yeah, yeah mobility could be tanked etc etc) A Hunter getting 85% of their melee charge back instead of 100% because they have low strength is not going to be noticed by the VAST majority of players. Even with ZERO melee investment it would cut the cooldown in half. Jiminy Christmas what are we even complaining about here… you don’t think Warlocks and Titans wouldn’t love to get half a charge of another ability back just for putting down a rift or barricade? That’s said… I think Hunters should get a short 3 sec window of “evasion” that’s like what Manticore gets for both Marksman and Gambler’s Dodge.
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Edited by Pazsy: 6/25/2025 6:08:05 AM1) if it was busted people would use Hunter more for end game. Stop being disingenuous. All Hunter melees are balanced around being used more than other classes melees, that is why they are fundamentally weaker and mainly utility focused. Even gunslinger which is almost purely built around knives have extremely low damage compared to snap and hammer. 2) ok lemme get this straight, because Hunter grenade builds are weaker due to these stat changes hunters should just never engage with building into them ever? They should never ask for buffs to those things ever??? What about mothkeepers? What about grapple builds? What about renewals? I should just never run those exotics because these stat changes deem that I’m not allowed to? Are you brain dead? 3) because it does nothing else. It doesn’t add to your survivability or give team wide buffs without an aspect like rally barricade and both rifts do. It’s a purely selfish ability that the entire hunter class is built around. We have less survivability intrinsically so we can cast more utility melees on the field, that’s how it’s balanced. It is in no way shape or form “broken” get real. 4) storms keep, especially with the alpha lupi rework. Helion is worth putting stuff into class. But for the most part you’re kinda right, which just makes this situation for hunters more frustrating. Why are hunters punished so extremely heavily for not investing in TWO stats while warlocks or titans can put all of their stats into melee or grenade or weapons? You aren’t punished for not running health to make your barricade/rift last longer, why is this only a hunter issue. It sounds like you either don’t engage with buildcrafting meaningfully or just don’t play hunter at all.
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You're first point sums it all up. I have never once seen an LFG for a GM or Master Raid that said "need hunter" or "only hunters"... its ALWAYS "titans only" or "need warlock, need solar"... I'm a hunter main who at one point had 3 hunters (long story lol)... but when I went for my raid titles, I had to create a warlock for the class runs cuz NO ONE wanted to do any all-hunter runs. I am 100% convinced that all the ppl defending the nerf to gamblers are ppl who dont even play hunter, knowing that it is weaker in most ways... but they've gotten trashed & demolished in pvp by some sweaty RDM hunter & are now riding the hate-train hard.
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Asking for damage buffs is not the same as asking to not have to build into certain stats. It looked like the felid might be more level moving forward and if bungie needs to address a damage buffs it will be much simpler now.
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[quote]1) if it was busted people would use Hunter more for end game. Stop being disingenuous. All Hunter melees are balanced around being used more than other classes melees, that is why they are fundamentally weaker and mainly utility focused. Even gunslinger which is almost purely built around knives have extremely low damage compared to snap and hammer. 2) ok lemme get this straight, because Hunter grenade builds are weaker due to these stat changes hunters should just never engage with building into them ever? They should never ask for buffs to those things ever??? What about mothkeepers? What about grapple builds? What about renewals? I should just never run those exotics because these stat changes deem that I’m not allowed to? Are you brain dead? 3) because it does nothing else. It doesn’t add to your survivability or give team wide buffs without an aspect like rally barricade and both rifts do. It’s a purely selfish ability that the entire hunter class is built around. We have less survivability intrinsically so we can cast more utility melees on the field, that’s how it’s balanced. It is in no way shape or form “broken” get real. 4) storms keep, especially with the alpha lupi rework. Helion is worth putting stuff into class. But for the most part you’re kinda right, which just makes this situation for hunters more frustrating. Why are hunters punished so extremely heavily for not investing in TWO stats while warlocks or titans can put all of their stats into melee or grenade or weapons? You aren’t punished for not running health to make your barricade/rift last longer, why is this only a hunter issue. It sounds like you either don’t engage with buildcrafting meaningfully or just don’t play hunter at all.[/quote] 1) Salvations Edge Day 1 - 75% Hunters Personal experience - my go to master Warlord’s Ruin was Solar Hunter with infinite radiant/super with knives/blade barrage. Have you ever thought that Gambler’s actually limited how powerful they could make Hunter melee abilities? 2) So this led me to believe you didn’t actually read my original reply because I specifically mentioned niche Hunter grenade builds (like renewals) and that grenade building should be where Hunter’s complain. I’ve run the mothkeeper build quite often as a change up… it’s interesting but not earth shattering. 3) It’s a low cooldown ability breaking tracking and aim assist (I think it should break enemy ai in PvE as well kind of like the opposite of barricade) and activates a HUGE amount of effects depending on exotics/aspects/subclass. Even team buffs like Radiant dodge and the change to Speedloader slacks coming up. Something like offensive bulwark that increases melee energy gained would be fine but completely free refund with no investment is too much. 4) The issue is that Titan and Warlock class abilities don’t have the variety of effects to build into like Hunter does… there is not much there to entice it from those classes. Storms Keep will die without the artifact buffs but Helion looks to be spicy for EoF. What else is there that is actually good? Hunter’s have also been able to break Super cooldowns and other balancing measures because they could just negate melee investment and still build around melee to feed other abilities. Buildcrafting is about say “I want to be able to do ____.” and then trying to make that happen. The new system is about making those choices more meaningful and deterministic… not free.
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And there it is. I’m not even reading the rest of this. You bring up salvations edge and I’m out. Biggest cope EVER. 1 encounter for 2 weeks. GET REAL. Hunter for the every other day one has had less than 10% usage rate.
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Invis Hunter and Tether for GM and general raid use… Celestial Nighthawk GG… Blade Barrage was the highest damage super for a long time… Strand Hunter Super was deleting bosses when strand released. Gimme a break 🤦♂️
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Nobody uses invis hunter for GMs unless your fingers are glued together and you're just that awful. TC is better for 90% of bosses and nova does more damage than celestial whats the point. Blade barrage was good for a month before being nerfed. Strand hunter super was bugged and was fixed within a week. I swear all you people can do is lie
