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4/9/2023 5:53:35 PM
53
Effort vs. Reward
Whoever is in charge of this PVE hardness scaling needs to sit and REALLY think about effort vs. reward. I'm about to walk away because almost everything is just slamming my face into a wall until one of the two break in the current content. This isn't fun anymore and it's starting to feel borderline abusive to have every single new thing I do be a death zerg with fewer rally points and longer restricted revive zones. I haven't even bothered with legendary anything since regular everything is tuned up so much. Which means... I'm hitting a plateau where the game is basically saying I'm not good enough to play it anymore.
Then you go and put just mean things like Sam the "friendly" NPC who only ever knocks me out of cover but can glide right over everything else with no issues? And adds that are bullet sponges? And making soft hitting weapons the only weapons that can stun champs reliably?
The juice is really starting to not be worth the squeeze, y'all. There's a line between making a game more difficult and making a game actively hostile to your casual player base. If you look in the rear-view mirror maybe you can still see it.
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15 RepliesThis is what happens when a dev doesn’t understand their own game. Loot games (which Destiny is) live-and-die with their balance of effort vs reward. Too much reward for too little effort, players get bored…and quit. Too much effort for too little reward, players get frustrated…and quit. But one has to remember that loot isn’t the only reward. FUN is also an important reward. So you can shower a game in loot, but if the game play is a tedious, unenjoyable slog? You’ll still turn off lots of players. Lightfall missed the boat on both docks with the tuning.
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It devalues the endgame when some of the best weapons come from seasonal activities and the ritual playlist.
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1 ReplyPersonally what annoys me most are Strikes now. Formerly standard strikes were easy casual stuff and Nightfalls were increasingly difficult. Three strikes and one 100k NF for two pinnacles per week. Four games. Now? Standard strikes are not anymore casual and it takes five! for a pinnacle? NF 200k? Three games? Four? Two best case. So for two pinnacles - rewards unchanged - you now can run 7-9 games with a slower pace. Vanguard hence least rewarding activity in comparison. Meanwhile I have reached 1810. Consequentially I ran no single strike this week. I know how Bungie will interpret that. Crucible and Gambit must be too easy for their pinnacles in comparison. Let's... Later on they will ask themselves why less and less players played playlists.
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2 RepliesThe irony is some players enjoy banging their heads against the same wall over and over again. Just look at some of the tryhard responses to posts like these. The simple pleasure some people get out of Bungie merely changing the difficulty scaling on the same old content instead of actually coming up with new and engaging activities is just amazing to me. I can only imagine how nice it is to be so easily entertained. And how fortunate for Bungie.
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1 ReplyEdited by Eru Ellimist Entreri™: 4/11/2023 8:38:58 PMIf the "reward" wasn't pinnacles etc dropping duplicates in wasted slots wasting multiple upgrade chances each week it would feel much more rewarding. At the end of Taken King, around Rise of Iron they had it tuned specifically to avoid duplicate drops for the important loot. That it happens multiple times, on multiple characters, multiple weeks in a row is not only clearly intentional, it doesn't provide adequate value compared to the time investment involved. Edit: Shortly after posting this Vex Mythoclast finally dropped for me... So if you are getting a string of comparitively "bad" drops, go for that Raid exotic you have been after! 😹
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26 RepliesOn the topic of effort vs reward, I have reset gambit this season 15 times, and rose to #156 in elo…. And yet, I have not gotten a single trust with rapid hit/explosive payload, but watched 3 friends get the roll I was after, I’ve seen literally every permutation of perks for the 3rd and 4th column but the one I’m after….. I can’t even tell you exactly how many’s trusts I’ve broken down.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/10/2023 12:47:22 AMFinishing a weekly activity and getting a Pinnacle = 😃 The Pinnacle being the exact same Light Level = 😧
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Yeah, Destiny just isn't that type of game. Take a game like Sekiro, and specifically the Guardian Ape boss fight. One of my Top 3 best gaming moments of all time. You don't really get anything for beating the ape except for the satisfaction of beating it and the experience as a whole. If Destiny had THOSE kinds of rewards, the trash loot might not be so bad. PS: -blam!- Sword Saint Isshin...
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I personally think the difficulty in the current game is fine. I'm of the opinion that certain activities should reward better than they currently do with the current effort. I definitely don't want a decrease in the challenges. But being rewarded better for the challenges is something I'd champion.
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Edited by Obi-Juan: 4/11/2023 11:16:54 PM
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10 Repliessounds like you need to get into some raids, dungeons and gm's. these are the only reason to play destiny atm, if you're not doing that then I can see the game getting pretty stale. I myself only recently got a reliable raid team together, and we have been running vog for the vex, and dabbling in the new raid. been doing gm's and dungeons for a while. effort vs reward is much better in these activities vs pretty much everything else plus they aren't that difficult.
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Don't you get it? The effort IS the reward. [spoiler]duh[/spoiler]
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game is still easy stop crying
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I honestly haven’t had this issue. What build do you run? PvE has felt very good to me because my builds have time to actually work instead of fighting over enemies with my team. I feel like there’s real risk in engaging enemies and like I need a plan to do so. In my personal (and I understand, not universal) opinion the game balance is in a really good spot with a few exceptions (that they’ve addressed. That vexcalibur mission is brutal)
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1 ReplyIt doesn't make much sense when you think about it how you can get the same rewards from running a normal dungeon as solo flawlessing a master dungeon.
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The problem is that they don’t actually play the game so they have no idea what the risk to reward ration feels like in this game.
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10 RepliesI’m playing other games until Bungie stops this nonsense. The weapons I have are fantastic. So many S tier items. So grinding for 2 tokens and a blue again, just like in Y1, is boring. Being underleveled in every activity no matter my power level means I have no incentive to get more power. So there’s no incentive to do Jack squat in this game for me at all. As more players reach these realizations, the record launch numbers will continue to plummet. I’m just not sure Bungie management cares. They already got my money, and don’t care if I play. And it shows.
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I find it rather funny. Playing the game is maximum effort for minimum reward. Making the game is minimum effort for maximum reward.
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1 ReplyNo reward can justify you being underlevelled in legend strike Besides we all know they'll never seriously buff the rewards, it's a shite change regardless, we shouldn't create the fantasy that if I get something yellow all the time the game will suddenly be fun
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2 Replies[quote]Whoever is in charge of this PVE hardness scaling needs to sit and REALLY think about effort vs. reward. I'm about to walk away because almost everything is just slamming my face into a wall until one of the two break in the current content. This isn't fun anymore and it's starting to feel borderline abusive to have every single new thing I do be a death zerg with fewer rally points and longer restricted revive zones. I haven't even bothered with legendary anything since regular everything is tuned up so much. Which means... I'm hitting a plateau where the game is basically saying I'm not good enough to play it anymore. Then you go and put just mean things like Sam the "friendly" NPC who only ever knocks me out of cover but can glide right over everything else with no issues? And adds that are bullet sponges? And making soft hitting weapons the only weapons that can stun champs reliably? The juice is really starting to not be worth the squeeze, y'all. There's a line between making a game more difficult and making a game actively hostile to your casual player base. If you look in the rear-view mirror maybe you can still see it.[/quote] You’re not even playing the activities that had a difficulty increase…
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The vast majority of weapons in the game play exactly like every other weapon in the game, they're literally just aesthetic differences. Bungie's theory appears to be that "challenge is the reward" because it sure as -blam!- isn't fun.
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It's a JOKE! I can't even access the gate to collect my "reward" from the hall of heroes! Even though it's blinking saying I have one! Just odd man. I just started to play campaign on Warlock, but have already completed weekly steps to obtain reward from Bluejay quest. But can't because I have to complete the campaign first. Just why?
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Trust me you'll fell better after you visit the bungie store and purchase some stuff. Sarcasm...
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THANK YOU - My issue exactly! I have few issues with the change in difficulty except for certain ship, tanks ect, some of which - Arms Dealer you have few hiding spots and can't even do damage on. But for the rewards and lack there of - SO NOT WORTH IT. And why the HEL! is there no more match making NF's?!?!?!?! Its pretty much impossible to get decent scores in one run. So what you end up doing is having to run it 3 F'ing times! THE ISSUE IS - BUNGO gets rewarded for the number of hours players spend playing. So they make it harder and with fewer decent rewards. But some people are stupid enough to increase their grind. But for what?? The joke is on them, many of us D1 day 1 vets are saying screw this and have reduced their play time! Heck except for me my entire clan has gone bye-bye just like the Traveler! And I play maybe a forth of what I normally play. Because why would I ?!?!?!
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I'm with you on this.
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2 RepliesI agree. Casual players seem to have been "patched out" this expansion. I got to the stage your at when i finished the lightfail campaign on 2 characters, and I wasn't doing a 3rd. They made everything take longer, just to eek out the content, as well as making it a less rewarding experience with half the exotics locked behind legendary lost sectors with a pretty steep level requirement, not to mention constantly have you -ve power level. I just turn up for Xurs engram I got 5 pieces on 2 characters to get, and when they fix the evidence board for the exotic glaive, I;m pretty much done with the game. Forever. I can't justify another purchase for what I received in this box of chores. Guess I'll watch the final shape on twitch, and save the $$$$
