I came up with a revolutionary plan to increase my enjoyment of PVP within destiny. I stopped playing it. Almost overnight 90% of the frustrations in this game disappeared. I stopped chasing pinnacles as well.

If you want SBMM why haven’t you been playing comp?

The predictable slew of responses followed your post, with the usual disregard for the thought you are sharing. PvP is no place for beginners. And the inane argument you can't get better without getting utterly destroyed game after game? Baseless nonsense. Once the skill gap widens to a certain point, there is no way for the low-end person to compete and/or learn something from the experience. It happens too fast. More than that, with the number of aspects, mods, S-tier weapons, etc. it's not an easy nut to crack for new players. More... what these naysayers also ignore is the game HAS to inject new players all the time, because veteran players LEAVE all the time. So here we are, every single mode total sweatfest. Sure, the top players have a lot more fun because they get to feed on the low players. The low players never get a break, they just get to experience one blowout after another, usually with the Unbroken teabagging just for giggles. I did the PvP thing, found what you say to be true, but I came to the conclusion the mode needs ME more than I need IT. What's my leverage? Simple; I won't play it in its current state. If enough players come to the same conclusion I have, Bungie may make a change that makes it a more approachable mode. If not, no loss to me. I guess I'm a weirdo, but I play games to have fun. I also have a great deal of real-world competitive experience, and I'm saying the toxic stuff you routinely see in this game is a major turn-off for me. But then again, I don't make a habit of disrespecting other people, and more than that, I learned early on to never punch down. If someone is weaker they need my help, not me driving their head into the dirt and mocking them about it.

I definitely think there are a lot of shortcomings around the matchmaking in destiny PVP. There should for sure be more freelance options but the argument that the whole game is full of sweats and it's impossible to improve I disagree with. I was a happy go lucky PVE main all through Destiny 1 and through Destiny 2 until around shadowkeep, or maybe one of the seasons in that year when I decided I wanted to try for the unbroken seal. I went from a 0.7-0.8kd average to usually sitting around a 1.3-1.7kd average across quickplay depending on the mode. I'd say treating PVP in the same way as PVE is the way to go. If you're gonna go up against something in PVE that's difficult you're gonna build into an exotic that helps you out, abilities that provide you with either survivability or DPS, stats that complement your playstyle and the mode, and weapons that are in the meta for what you're trying to do. If you were to jump into a raid with blue gear, trash stats, and zero knowledge of encounters you would have an equally bad time. You gotta treat PVP just like you do PVE. You gotta build for it, you gotta choose the right guns, you gotta play in a way that suits the mode. So many times I've run across people in trials messaging me with stuff like "F-ing Sweat, go touch grass" etc, but when I inspect them they are specced in entirely the wrong stats, have PVE mods on, and their crucible time is under 50 hours. PVP just like any other hobby or leisure activity is "practice makes perfect". You gotta keep at it and use what's hot right now to keep your skills fresh. I play golf and if I haven't played for a month or two I will suuuuuck until I've played a few rounds. PVP is the same way. Saying "I hate it and it sucks" is not a way to improve. Improve your mental and the gameplay will follow. Best of luck to you.

Its definitely toxic i’ll give you that… and it can be very unforgiving initially. I’m not too sure about stressful, it’s a game at the end of the day. I suggest finding weapon archetypes that cater to your play style then customize your armor to optimize things like unflinching aim, reload speeds, targeting, class abilities etc. Look into aspects that offer additional armor stats too. A big part of the crucible is gearing up for it. It’s very easy to dismiss this for most new players. Max out your armor with ascension shards. Once your gear is set then comes the gradual process of acquiring good accuracy and game sense. That’ll just come naturally with experience. I suggest running in a team yourself, maybe 2 or 3 other players to keep things challenging and engaging. Six stacks tend to be boring stomp matches. I hope this helps. I’m a new light player but have attained unbroken and have had success in trials. PvP can be very thrilling once you get accustomed to it all.

First. Thank you for voicing your opinion. Second. The reaction from most of the commenters I'm seeing is the crux of the problem. It is a fallacy to believe that the only way a person can get better in the game is if it doesn't have SBMM. That's just stupid. It helps those who want to progress because they can be rewarded for mastering the mechanics of the game from basic to advanced based on the skill level they're currently at. I.e. In valorant(which has sbmm in every mode). If you learn crosshair placement and spray control you will start to win most of your games in the lowest tier of SBMM, thus pushing your sbmm rank higher. as you progress the criteria for mastery shift around the current skill level, and you slowly and consistently build skills. It actually hurts your skill-building to constantly be matched against people MUCH better than you because even your improvements are punished so you aren't reinforced for developing what actually are better mechanics for the game. This is why "smurfing" is so heavily policed in all of your favorite esports. I just find it funny that the players who believe themselves to be "good" and talk about how SBMM won't help you "improve" fight so hard to keep playing against players below their skill level. That's the first common argument. The second is "so just don't play it". Which is probably the lowest level of discussion I've ever seen haha. Someone expressing their desires to change a mode in an open forum is trying to have a discussion to change a game and a mode they like. Not engaging in the discussion will not change anything and continue to shrink the PVP player base. So how about actually coming up with an argument or pov instead of a pea-brained "jUsT DONt pLAy". The funny thing about the just don't play argument is that people have taken heed. This is why PVP has gotten one map in 4 years. How about hearing the gripes out and actually trying to improve the mode for ALL in the community.

Play survival, elimination and rumble. Survival and elim are sbmm. Rumble helps with awareness because you don’t want to get pinched or cleaned up.

Honestly at this point all I see is crying when I lose it is what it is and when I win it is what it is I'm not the best player by far but blam stop crying and actually get better so what you get mercy all that matters is what your kd looks like at the end I can get mercy and still end up on top of the leader board

But where and what is the answer, because I see the story from both sides. I don't consider myself good. But I can hold my own. I have played destiny a long time. Been here with and without sbmm. With the first gen of D2 crucible my stats were destroyed. I mean they were terrible. I couldn't adapt and play well to the primary team firing meta of the day. When they went and updated it and had sbmm things got in a lot better of a place. I spent a long time bringing my kid back up and I'm still years later recovering it to where it should be. Roughly a 1.2/1.5 KD is where my stats should be. Why I know this, because during that era of destiny I played crucible for my ex-wife as she couldn't stand going in there. Now it didn't take long for me to get that account into the same "bracket" as I was but while I was in the lower skill groups I destroyed everyone. She has more we rans then I do because of it. So I can see with how every time I played on my account it was sweaty and stressful, and unless I was in survival I wasnt wanting to play that way. I wanted to use "weaker" load outs so that I could try and do some stupid things for a laugh. But I couldn't. But playing on her account I could do the dumbest things and usually recover from it because the people I was against didn't know how to play. (High skill argument) I can see how getting stomped time after time no matter what you try, no matter load out or movement you do. Play aggressive, play slow. Play close play far isn't fun and what do you learn? How can you learn to read the radar when the person playing against you can move so fast before you decide to commit to where they were they have reacted and are now adjusting to you. How are you supposed to learn when you slide or jump around a lane just for the other player to slide with a sniper and dome you cross map, or when you push a sniper with a shotgun close the gap and they hit a no scope on you or quick scope. Time after time? How are you supposed to learn to read the radar where your team is and where they are pushing so you can push with, or flank during the gunfight if they are all dead within 10 seconds of the match starting. Do I think sbmm needs to be implemented. Yes. But it needs it's place. Maybe have a really really relaxed standard in quick play, control, clash, ect. Then have it as a really strict standard for rumble, surviva,l trials, and something in the middle for iron banner, elimination (that way you can learn during the week for trials but not feel like you're playing trials.)

Bungie would rather cater to bullies and sweats than help out inexperienced players. Pretty sad, really.

See here's the thing... the "sweats" and streamers are the only people who Bungie actually listen to. So you're never going to get SBMM, because they tried that and the streamers and sweats cried constantly because they couldn't pub-stomp lobbies anymore. The game is fundamentally anti-balanced PvP with it's weapons and abilities, so I would highly advise ignoring PvP entirely. I'm about at that point honestly, which is unfortunate.

Ironically, the people getting whooped in pvp sweat more than the great players

And I’M SICK AND TIRED OF THESE MF SNAKES ON THIS MF PLANE!

Friend list me. Ill help whenever I play crucible. I play for fun but I can help you and point out your blind spots. I've played every single state of crucible since D1 week 1. I say that to tell you the new aim assist changes and air effectiveness stuff are nerfs to those 'high skill' techniques that gamers have been utilizing. There's no more in air 360 degree easy money sniping going on. The crucible is a [b][u]CHEESE FEST[/u][/b]. The name of the game is overstacking advantages and utilizing mobility techniques to move your hitbox while pointing n'clicking on heads and spamming abilities. Its just disorientation and Aim Assist. NOT.. .."skill". There's nothing to be arrogant about. And there's no such thing as being 'bad' at [b]PLAY[/b]. Don't get too upset and don't quit the crucible yet. Just understand what's really going on and have fun with it. (Bows & Glaive in crucible is crazy fun)

They people play the most pvp are ytuber and streamers just for money

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/261275501/0/0 I made an apology on this post about this problem. Please have a look. If anyone disagrees just message me and we can 1v1. It's okay if you really think you can my skill level let's see you back up where your criticism is. Anyways we apologize. CHECK OUT THE POST OF MINES. I APOLOGIZE TO THE DESTINY COMMUNITY FOR BEING TOO GOOD 😔😔😔. Sigh I'm too good.