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9/4/2016 3:36:43 AM
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Is there something wrong with handcannons?

I've never been a fan of hand cannons, but the other day I decided to give them a crack. I tried a few legendary and exotic handcannons and I noticed that there is something about them that just feels off. It's like the bullets don't register or just blatantly miss. I know the meta is pretty much dominated by the handcannons at the high level, but I don't understand how that's possible when they don't seem effective. It's like something is off with them, any idea what it is?

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  • Bullets from all weapons in this game don't travel in a straight line. They move in a "RNG" or "probability cone" where the bullet can deviate off target based on firing conditions. Range and firing before the weapon recovers from a previous shot WIDEN the base of the cone, and increase the odds of missing. This effect is most noticeable with hand cannons. So if you pace your shots (i.e. let the gun recover completely from the recoil) AND you stay within close-to-medium range with a hand cannon, you will reliably hit your shots. But if you spam the trigger or try to engage beyond mid-range, that cone will widen to the point----and the bullet will travel in a random enough path ALONG that cone----that you have a high likelihood of missing your target. Even if the reticle was "aimed" at your target when you pulled the trigger. This is what a lot of people like to call "ghost bullets". They are not "hits that failed to register'. THEY ARE MISSES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKpW8XW6Xq0 This is video of Top 1% player and streamer True Vanguard playing with a Eyasluna/Longbow load out. Although he is super-quick, he generally does the three things at all times. 1. Let the hand cannon completely recover from the previous shot before pulling the trigger agains. 2. He's always moving. Either to throw off his opponents aim or cut off their firing angle. BOTH of these are crucial for hand cannon play in PVP. 3. Once he's beyond mid-range....out comes the sniper. He's seldom trying to push the hand cannon to long range (even though you can get some really stupid rolls with Eyasluna that can let you try to do that) But since this a range-related phenomenon, you can minimize its impact with certain perks 1. Range boosting perks will lengthen the cone, and allow the bullet to travel farther before veering off course. 2. Aim-Assist. The stickier your reticle, the more likely the bullet is to hit your target even if it veers off-center. Which is why the drop of Finala's Peril that I got last Iron Banner is an absolute beast of a hand cannon. It rolled Sureshot IS (boost aim-assist) , Hammer Forged (boosts range) and Hidden Hand (again boosts aim-assist). So, as long as I don't spam the trigger or try to enage out to long range, it is an EXTREMELY accurate weapon.

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    • Boo! [spoiler]ghost bullets[/spoiler]

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    • Once I used a hand cannon for a month exclusively I got used to 8t. Now I don't use anything else

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    • Hand canons are trash. There are only a couple worth using and you will be owned by every other primary.

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      • Hand cannons need to be 100% accurate. (Last word should register at scout rifle range). No reason bullets shouldn't go where I'm shooting them This would be compensated by damage drop off. Think Year 1 handcannons with damage dropoff.

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        • Yes. I feel that the range nerf on hand cannons killed them.

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        • Edited by e4064495: 9/5/2016 6:22:09 PM
          Firstly some range bonus is very important. Rifled barrel is recommended. Reinforced barrel is meh because stability is important. You don't really need to add any stability but you don't want to lose any. Secondly the best archetype is the eyasluna type. That extends to ace of spades (not recommended), devil you know, lord high fixer, hawkmoon, finallas peril and her revenge. It does good damage for headshots and rewards them but unlike faster rof doesnt punish you much for a body shot. The fist curse type is only recommended if you can get headshots consistently. Thirdly. Range finder is a good perk to have but with rifled barrel outlaw is also good to gain back that reload speed on precision kills. Fourthly (? Idk if i just made up a word or not...) hidden had also improves the gun as it does with most but isnt absolutely necessary. Atm i am using reactive reload with outlaw which is a good setup for me personally in 6v6 where engagements are quite regular with little time between. Yeah and omolon hc take some getting used to. So do hc in general tbh. Pace your shots is good advice and let the gun settle. It seems kind of stupid when you are being shot at but it works. Hc dont seem to really need to use their max rof its more about accuracy than speed. Also move around a bit if you can. Its easy enough to still land shots. Hc are sub par atm. It takes practice. Thats the only advice i can give from my experience. There are people far more qualified to talk about this than me (they know sights, aim assist values etc) but hey if it works out for you. Good luck.

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        • It's mostly because you are at a range that the gun doesn't deem in range. Unless you have Eyasluna or Iron Banner HC. Then more than likely you'll continue to feel unsuccessful with hand cannons

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        • You need to stack range and aim assist perks to compensate for reticle bloom. The average handcannon will miss otherwise, despite however accurate you may be.

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        • YES THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH HAND CANNONS.... the Eyasluna never -blam!-ing drops 😂

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          • Nope, working fine as intended.

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          • Get gud scrub.

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          • Called bloom. Slow down shots in order to get the best result

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          • One word [spoiler]BLOOM[/spoiler]

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            • I don't see it myself, it's practically a hand cannon meta. Everyone's using them. They feel fine to me anyway. Make them any better than they currently are and it will definitely be a hand cannon meta.

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            • The hit detection? Lol. They're rough.

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            • This is what I know, might not be entirely accurate bit I think it's pretty close: All primary weapons (and probably most others) in destiny have a hidden stat called accuracy which is tied to range. Think if it as a cone with the pointy end at the end of your barrel, protruding out in the direction you shoot. This cone is the area in which your bullets can register. The lower the range stat the wider the cone and there for the larger the area bullets can register in, leading to inaccuracy. On top of that, the cone widens with repeated shooting and takes time to settle back to the tighter, initial accuracy cone (this phenomenon is often referred to as bloom). Most classes of gun are basically unaffected by this mechanic but you'll notice it with the bullet grouping of an auto rifle and you'll notice it [b]a lot[/b] with hand cannons right now. The reason being bungie not only decreased their accuracy but also increased the time it takes for initial accuracy to return, making slowly timing shots and increasing range a major factor of getting results with hand cannons. So that about sums up why hand cannons feel off to you... They have horrible accuracy right now and this results in bullets missing their target a lot, often referred to as 'ghost bullets'.

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              • Also the reason for [i]Ghost Bullets[/i] or [i]Phantom Shots[/i] has to do with spamming the trigger. When you spam the gun, you aren't allowing for the recoil to settle even if you think the sights settled when you shot again -- causing the gun to shoot where the gun was aimed at during recoil. So half the time, these [i]Ghost Bullets[/i] aren't blanks at all. They are just landing somewhere else. The further you are shooting at your target the more likely these bullets are.

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              • Handcannons are fine. The only people who complain have very little range or very little stability on their rolls and are either firing them too quickly or over estimating their range. Watch any youtube video and you can clearly see people firing follow up shots before the barrel is anywhere near the target all the while blaming phantom bullets for their lack of skill. You openly admit you dont use hand cannons often. Practice and you'll find their unbeatable in certain circumstances. Almost all hc's two tap when litc procs.

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                • Bungo nerfed my babies into the ground

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                • It's their stability, it's been reduced to where it's probably half of what is shown. So the bullets tend to not go where you're aiming. If you want an okay handcannon, and are looking for something to compare, look at my hunter's FWC handcannon, it has just enough stability and range to make it bearable.

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                • Yep they have been nerfed to hell

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                • The top level is dominated by abilities and special weapons. Hand cannons are just used because of the potential to put lots of damage in 1 shot before popping back into cover, making teamshotting very strong

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                • Firing the weapon at its full ROF is where the phantom bullets come from. Let the gun come to a rest before firing again and no more phantom bullets

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                  • Bungo doesn't want any primary to be able to compete with scouts. So they nerfed handcannons range and gave them houdni bullets.

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                    • I had this problem when I first started using handcannons in the crucible. Especially with the Hawkmoon, Eyasluna, and The Last Word. What worked for me was learning to pace my shots depending on what distance I was firing from. Far: Slow and Steady Mid: A little faster, work with the recoil Close: Fire at will.

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