I couldn't agree more they simply are just ruining the game one update at a time,it's hard to laugh while playing anymore & that used to be everything anybody ever did was have fun it makes me sad

See I post shit like this and I just get hate messages because bungie nerfed my "crutch" subclass or "crutch" weapon. It's had NOTHING to do with that. It has EVERYTHING to do with bungie taking things that I love in the game and nerfing them into the ground. Tired of all te elitist assholes on here that talk shit just because they can.

Share this post guys! Let's spread this over forums! Also do polls to show bungie and make them do this

So much this. Bump

People can make straw man fallacies about this issue all they want, but at the end of the day this issue has been cooking under the surface for quite a while now, and I believe it has finally managed to emerge. More people than I have ever seen before are finally calling Bungie out on this problem of nerfing/things being lackluster. If this continues, we can only hope Bungie responds.

Imagine this, could you "balance" pvp if borderlands had it? Now imagine this, can you "balance" pvp if destiny had it? I really cant say i do 😢

Bump

Bump.

I completely agree with your ideas, and the points you bring up are great. It is just unfortunate that Bungie doesn't really listen to the player-base... People continue to play a game because it is fun; anything else is irrelevant. The best way to know how to make the game fun for the players is to ask the players... I would have never guest...

[quote]Bungie, I don't know who's really in charge of balancing at this point, and I don't really care. You need to fundamentally re-think how you're going about it, because it's not working. If y'all don't want to read this, bottom line is -- vanilla was pretty good, so why have you screwed with everything so much? You've steadily made your game less fun by taking a sledgehammer approach to each meta, smashing the dominant weapons and classes into the ground for your playerbase to move to the next best thing. That's not how good devs approach balancing. Your approach should be creative and should reflect a desire to make everything equally playable, not an approach to consistently push everyone to "what isn't terrible now." Let's look at a couple of changes and how they can be improved: Regarding firebolt, you've combined tracking + DOT, which is why it's so good. The "bolt" should strike later (which was incorporated, GOOD CHANGE BUNGIE), but think of creative ways for fusion or solar grenades to be better. Something involving the blast radius, increased recovery, or increased agility would probably go a long way. Shadestep is pretty balanced conceptually, it's the combo of tracker+shadestep that is broken. Graviton Forfeit should give -1 recovery or something. EDIT: shadestep is a horizontal blink, which is why it's good. My spammability comment was off. Likewise, arc grenade never needed to be dumbed down damage-wise, it needed a longer delay in damage-output so you could jump out of the way. Killing its damage output just meant bladedancers needed to run to the next best grenade. Arc grenade was great because it punished poor positioning -- my fix emphasizes that role the grenade plays, yours simply makes it unplayable. Blink has been nerfed to death, and actually isn't very good right now. A better solution would have been to significantly increase airborne accuracy for normal jumps, so you can choose between speed (blink) or firefight mobility and lethality (jump). The entire point of the sunsinger class is to be the warlock king of small-scale engagement (if that's not the point I have no clue what the point was). That is so painfully obvious, from the melee shield to its grenades to a super that's really only good in 3's or less. So nerfing it into the ground doesn't help anyone. Instead, Voidwalker should have the best warlock 6v6 neutral game ever -- axion bolt should have 3 bolts if there's 4 or more opponents or something, and the voidwalker should have stronger recovery, etc., if there are more enemies. This is similarly balanced because the Stormcaller class is obviously geared around the super (terrible grenades and workable melee, but insane 6v6 super), so you have a class for each. If you're not getting my drift, people are flocking to Titans now and calling the Striker's charge overpowered. It isn't, never was, but it's indicative of the approach people will take. Striker was in a good place (mobility, high armor, good grenades), but now you've made it much better. Similarly, pre-nerf SUROS, Vex, Thorn, TLW, Hawkmoon, and MIDA all in one meta together would make for a great meta. No need to nerf shotguns and snipers into the ground if primaries are a real threat. You've been nerfing shotguns and snipers for months now -- why? You really think that snipers were that good pre-TTK? They were fine, but a guardian with a SUROS could reasonably give a sniper trouble, or a good TLW user could take out the shotgun threat. Post nerf, the sniper user will just murder the SUROS user, or bodyshot him and then pull out MIDA and one-shot him. Does that make MIDA overpowered? No. Does that make snipers overpowered? No. Balance isn't a function of numbers. Not 2% ("2.5%") vs 6% vs 10% vs 122 vs 90. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's a difference of the way you play the game. Helm of Saint-14 isn't amazing because of some number, it's amazing because it fundamentally changes the way you play. Look at the best weapons you've had in metas past -- pre-nerf SUROS, Vex (post-first patch, not 56 damage!), Thorn, TLW, Hawkmoon, and MIDA (EDIT and pre-nerf Red Death), and look at what we've got now -- Hawksaw and Grasp of Malok. If you'll notice, Hawksaw and GoM aren't particularly *good* at anything. They're just mostly functional and happen to do their job better than anything else. Look at MIDA -- it does everything well -- it's accurate, it makes you fast, it gives you radar, and it's awesome when strafing. Look at Thorn -- it's accurate, it gives BURN, and it allows you to track. Look at Vex -- it changes a fusion rifle into a short-ranged auto-rifle murder machine. Most importantly, they're fun to use. They make you feel powerful. Hawksaw and GoM aren't fun to use -- they're functional, and get the job done, but no one is really excited about it, and the reason you use them is simple -- because they're the best. With more interesting and exciting options that are powerful, weapon selection comes down to personal choice, not because it's barely better than everything else. I've played competitive games my entire life. I played Halo, Halo 2, and Halo 3, I played CSGO, and I was a top-ranked Guild Wars player (when the pvp scene was hot). Destiny is one of the most compelling games I've ever played (up there with GW and Halo 2 for me), and it's become steadily less and less fun with every patch. I've dropped over $250 on your game. I've bought every expansion, and I've bought a ton of silver (you can check my account). If your message is that this is the future of Destiny, and its eventual sequel -- a game that starts off dynamic and fun, and is followed up by something bland and generic -- I have to ask, where did all of the fun go? [spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. See [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0]Cozmo's thread[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses. Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler][/quote] Bungie does not balance. They pick winners & loser. If you play a Warlock or Hunter you are a loser. If you play a Titan you are a winner. It is that simple. Now both my Hunter & Warlock suck wind. Weapons suck, supers suck, grenades suck. I refuse to spend 1 more minute on this game until Bungie fixes there screw up. In my case if I take the time to work up a Titan by the time get to 335 Bungie will nerf if just like they do every time.

Lol they should just change every subclass to how they were in their OP form. Sunsingers with OP firebolts. Voidwalker is nice. Storm caller pre patch OP? Hammer pre patch gods. Year 1 Blade Dancers. Pre patch Gunslinger. Nightstalker current. Striker current. Defender current. Hell, bring back pre patch Doctrine, pre patch pulse rifles, Year 1 Thorn damage into Year 2. 111 TLW. Just make everything OP instead of making it longer to kill someone. If everything's OP, no one can complain about it being unfair because then you'll just be bad.

This is what im talking about. There needs to be more worthwhile options.

This all the way

This last update was a SERIOUS mistake , Bungie I play all three characters but you've truly messed up the hunter class

They don't care about fun. Use any option more than they want you to and it will get nerfd. Except for snipers. They dont care how overused they are.

This guy^^,

The fact you expected this game to be fun with activision in charge, only shows how short sighted you actually are. Come on dude, your freaking out because the walls of your matrix are finally crashing down. This game has been a track of jokesville since day one, hell even once bungie signed on with activision.

What's balance?