Ok and, what did that have to do with me asking about how is this playing the way the game was intended? If anything the old infusion system where you could only infuse similar things into one another could fall into this claim since it was more so the original system. But that isn't even the very first one since there used to be no system, the like into like system is just the longest standing one. In other words the system has changed so many times it seems rather foolish to try and claim "this is the way the game is supposed to be played".

The way the game is... is the way it's meant to be played. That can change. It's the game-as-a-service model in a nutshell

That makes absolutely no sense. So if a game has a broken mechanic or a bug that is the way the game is meant to be? That is utter nonsense. Just because a certain system is in the game doesn't mean that is really how the game is meant to be, especially if said system doesn't do what it was intended to in the least.

A bug is an obvious mistake. Don't take the exception and make it the rule

And many would call having infusion cores as part of the system an obvious mistake. This also has not gone against what I said about systems that are out in but don't do what they were meant to.

[quote]And many would call having infusion cores as part of the system an obvious mistake. [/quote] And that makes it subjective and it loses some credibility. A bug is an objectively obvious mistake

Exactly, which is why you cannot claim that having infusion cores as part of the system is the way it is meant to be. Claiming something is the way it is meant to be is an attempt at an objective stance, when in reality the opinion of whether or not they should be in the game is subjective.

Enhancement cores were [b]purposefully [/b] included though. A purposeful action in this case isn't an objective mistake, like a bug would be

People are infusing less, which was the intent. They want you to make choices. So... working as intended. Bugs get patched. Bungie stands by this iteration of infusion very strongly. So, it is the way they mean it to be played.

So if they get removed from the infusion system, is that then the way the game was intended to be played? Why is it only now that the amount people infuse is an issue, and why only now is less infusing the way it is "meant to be"? How things are meant to be are typically consistent, they don't normally change at a random whim. So are you also saying that all the issues that come with the infusion system are how they are meant to be? The system is meant to drive away new players? It is meant to make players feel like they have no choice but to grind in a very specific way in order to just be able to use their favorite equipment? It is meant to limit the players experience, despite Bungie clearly making a claim earlier that they wanted to limit players less and give us more freedom? That last part alone is a contradiction to your whole "this is how it is meant to be".

Bungie also wants to make the game satisfying to "core" players, who are characterized by wanting grinds with reward structure. There are a few different ways to get cores. At this point, you can get cores from: Weekly clan challenge at level 4 (21 a week) Spider bounties (something like 15 a week?) Crucible ranks (10 per time hit Legend) Scrapper Bounties (nondeterminable) Running raids, scrapping repeat masterworks Future gunsmith bounties I'd say there's plenty of ways to do it, and all the more reason to join a clan. Not saying there couldn't be more, but it's not awful. The point of the cores is to incentivize playing, and disincentivize careless infusion. And yes, as a game that is a service and always changing, should cores be removed it will then be the way it was "meant" to be. The same way you were meant to grind Vault of Glass over and over to hit level 30. Run crota and upgrade to 32. Run PoE to hit 34.

First I don't think raids give you any cores directly. You could get some if the raid gave you a masterworked item, but not from things like actually playing the raid itself. Second scrapper bounties are disappearing with the addition of the black armoury bounties, unfortunately the black armoury ones are a replacement not an addition, meaning even less ways for new players to obtain cores. As for this whole idea of "meaning", I don't know about you, but I have never once felt like using up a core has made me holding the action button feel any more meaningful. The problem is that if you are a core player then you likely have a large number of cores, and so they feel rather irrelevant, but if you are a new player, you have none and have almost no ways of effectively earning them, and so they stop you from using what items you want throughout a large portion of the game. As such many players just simply stop playing, why bother with a game that limits you from the very start, especially a game that is typically advertised as being a more casual friendly one, and one where the developers have stated that they wanted to give their players freedom to do what they like. People go on about this whole idea of "meaningful infusion", but is it really meaningful, and for that matter, does it really need to be? The ways of obtaining cores is certainly not fun or entertaining, if you are a longer time player they are mostly meaningless since you typically have an abundance, the end result of simply moving your items number up a little doesn't feel very special or meaningful either, making the grind feel even more tedious. Infusion itself is nothing more than the increasing of a single over all number, a number that isn't even something like a damage number, it is simply a level, nothing more, and so it is rather dull by its very nature. Forcing people to grind even more for it, does not make the system more interesting, it doesn't add more "meaning" to the system itself. Just because something takes a while to obtain due to mindless grinding, doesn't suddenly make it meaningful. Scarcity does not inherently equal meaning. A diamond is just a rare rock, it has little to no meaning until it is either given to someone for some reason, or it is obtained in some special way. Infusion cores are nothing more than diamonds, something poor people really can't have (newbies and people with not much time), and rich people (long time players with many grinding hours), have tons of, basically all of which lack meaning other than looking pretty. Basically we might as well be using cores to bidazzle our guns, that would be just as "meaningful".

Yes, that's why I said playing raids and dismantling the masterworked weapons in the same line. It is true that scrapper bounties will be removed. We cannot say if this will be a net gain or loss come Season of Opulence, because we don't know the content of gunsmith bounties. They could be easy or hard, interesting or boring, they could give a lot of cores or just a little. However, if infusion were meaningless, no one would care. Power level is directly tied to the ability to complete endgame content. The meaning does not come from obtaining cores. Nobody has ever argued that. They are a resource, so the "diamonds" thing doesn't really apply. The meaning comes from the player choosing which items to infuse. The meaning comes from the scarcity. Since it is expensive to infuse, the power level increase is an opportunity to try new gear that comes in the player's direction. This is a loot game, they want the player to try out different loot. It helps to look at where the incentives lie, to think about what the best strategy is after looking at all the rules. Here are the rules: 1. The player must get stronger to complete new content. 2. New powerful gear will drop regularly at no cost, other than price of admission to an activity. Usually the only cost is just the players time. 3. It is costly to increase the power of gear. This transaction occurs on each upgrade. The most efficient strategy is to use the gear that drops as equipment in the interim. After reaching max light, the player may begin to infuse old favorites, and any new equipment they are fond of acquired during the process. This will change the way that player plays. Maybe they'll have to use a sniper instead of a shotgun, a grenade launcher over their favorite linear fusion. And at the end of it all, they will have spent the minimum amount of cores, for the maximum benefit. This sort of stuff is at the heart of many games. It's a big part of roleplaying games, which Destiny does borrow mechanics from. I'd attribute the problem to an audience mismatch, but that's probably oversimplifying.

And so we get to the heart of the issue, what does it matter to you or Bungie for that matter what people choose to use throughout the game? Why does it matter to you what gear someone chooses to use while leveling up? Why does it matter to you if someone chooses to constantly use their favorite items, or if they choose to use the new thing they just got? Why force players to play in such a specific manner, how does this add to the game? Why not let people choose whether or not to use that new item or not? Funny enough most people probably used the new stuff anyways, since it is new. People like trying out new things, but they also like having the option of going back to what they know they like without worry. What is the point of taking away half of that choice? For a company that made the claim that it wanted to give players more freedom and the ability to choose, their recent actions sure don't seem to line up with that statement. If the only meaning you can possibly find is that it forces players to play in a specific way in which they are forced to use new equipment no matter what, then that is a pretty pathetic meaning.

I don't know why you keep on bringing up that line about player choice. I suppose, by your metric, I should be able to choose to have Wardcliff, thousand voices, and black talon equipped simultaneously and with infinite ammo. Since people want to play that way, because I am a person and a customer, Bungie surely must throw all their game design out the window. Otherwise, they are only leaving me with a third of my freedom. Your freedom to choose comes from the weapon loadout, class and subclass, etc. The choice was never taken away. It was just given a cost. I was never defending anyone. I was trying to help lay out where the idea even came from. The system works for core players. Give every guardian 50 cores for having completed Forsaken's campaign. Tell them: THE BEST WAY TO INFUSE IS TO REACH THE CAP, THEN CHOOSE WHAT TO BRING FORWARD. INFUSE SPARINGLY. Problem solved. Working as intended.

Your question is akin to asking why didn't people use well of Radiance against crota.

Except the infusion system existed before. Just in a different form. I also wouldn't be stupid enough to make the claim that using well of radiance is how the game is meant to be played. No instead I would say using your abilities and supers is how the game is meant to be played. You can try and claim that grinding for loot, or spending time to upgrade your equipment is how the game is meant to be played, but claiming that using infusion cores is the way it is meant to be, because that is the way it is at this moment, is just plain foolish.

If it wasn't meant to be played that way why is that the way it is? Infusion is and always has had some cost tied to it. This is no different

I don't recall it having any actual cost in the beginning besides the consumption of the more powerful item. You can try and claim that it having a cost is the way it is meant to be played, but trying to claim that infusion cores being apart of it, is how it is meant to be is rather foolish. Seeing as the cost of it has changed multiple times. Why are their glitches in the game? Why are their systems that don't work well, or don't do what was intended? Are those all how they are meant to be? Should they also not be changed? And should people not be permitted to ask/demand that they be changed? Your attempt at an argument falls apparent incredibly fast, when looked at in any kind of logical manner. Just because something is in the game, does not inherently mean that is the way it is meant to be.

It at first had the most expensive of costs with etheric light. The resource you could only get 2-3 of per week

And that system was changed, why? Because it was found to be to restricting, it failed to fully do what the system was meant to do. The same thing can be said about the use of infusion cores.

Then they made infusion more accessible Which is what they intend to do with the addition kf the gunsmith bounties. Enhancement cores are also nowhere near as restrictive as etheric light was