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Edited by AAAbuser:
6/25/2018 4:39:14 PM
284
9 months after release, when Forsaken is in presale, Bungie admits to Juggler
For those who haven't read it yet, in an interview with FPS news, Project Lead Scott Taylor admitted to the juggler mechanic in Destiny 2.
What is "Juggler": The juggler mechanic basically has the goal, to make you use all of your weapons equally. So when you kill with a kinetic gun, you will most likely drop energy ammo, and vice versa.
[url]https://gamerant.com/destiny-2-juggler-forsaken/[/url]
Bungie basically had to talk about it now, to dispel the concerns about ammo scarcity with the upcoming weapon slot changes. Of course no details are given, it just wouldn't be Bungie without a scoop of useless secrecy on top - but my concern is not about the mechanic itself anyway.
What bothers me, and what also keeps me from spending money on your products again, is your complete lack of transparency and honesty, unless you want to sell us something.
What kept you guys from just explaining the mechanic shortly after launch, when players realized it's still a thing in Destiny 2? Not that this is or was the biggest issue with your game, but for 9 months people were discussing this, or even went to the lengths of testing it, writing down their results in spreadsheets.
You could have saved those people hours of wasted time, if you were just upfront and honest about your game for once. Yet, you weren't.
This detail clearly shows me what is wrong with your company, the complete lack of transparency on your end. Sure, you are disgruntled about your community, because they're so "ungrateful", or they're "jerks", but did you ever wonder why that is?
It's YOUR behavior that breeds this kind of community. If you don't respect your customers enough to be honest with them, it should be no surprise that they also won't respect you anymore at some point.
English
#destiny2
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“It’s your behaviour that breeds this kind of community” You sir have summed it all up with this part of your post. Well said.
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2 Replies[quote]What kept you guys from just explaining the mechanic shortly after launch, when players realized it's still a thing in Destiny 2?[/quote] 1. The fact that it was in the game being OBVIOUS to anyone who had experience with the Juggler modifier in Destiny 1. 2. The fact someone had done the research ----and posted it on Reddit---that showed that you get ammo dropping at less than half the rate for the weapon you have equipped, than you do for the other weapon in the Kinetic/Energy combo. 3. The fact that removing it from the game under the current system wasn't really on the table. Why? Because it would have exposed just how bankrupt the current weapon system really is. If ammo dropped at equal rates, you'd have NO reason to switch between Kinetic and Energy weapons.....until you got a shielded enemy. So people would have realized much earlier that-----in PVE---the system is just a DPS nerfed version of the old system. While the "Internal Juggler" mechanic basically forces you to use the Energy weapon as a second primary. Making it appear to be more useful than it actually is. Bottomline, this is just another example of Bungie trying to micro-manage play....and a poor outcome resulting.
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Edited by Der_Peevmeister: 6/26/2018 10:25:34 PMBungie cops to a ‘hidden’ in-game mechanic that’s underhanded, shady, and artificially extends the life of the game!? I’m -blam!-ing [url=https://youtu.be/cyLdtG7KZvw]shocked[/url].
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Agree [spoiler]🤮[/spoiler]
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I agree: the juggler mechanic is forced and cheap. The thing is, it didn't have to be this way; players are naturally going to use their energy weapon against shields and power weapons against bosses/champions. The only thing this does not force is the player to use kinetic on everything else, but that should be a choice for the player anyway.
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I'm really tired of this company and franchise. I sat patiently for years now waiting for these people to get their giant heads out of their own ass. Destiny 1, I was on board and patiently waited for the game to get better because I understood that this was a rather new IP. Finally we start seeing improvements just to throw them all away and restart this ride all over again. When in say "all over again" I mean, its exactly like the first Destiny release. Now lets throw in throttling exp, having jugular always present ( like we didn't know anyways) saying they are listening and then not really do anything about it, taking forever to do anything (mass shader delete), and virtually no communication on their own forums except their generic answers that nobody really cares to hear anymore. With that, I will not be buying anything from this company anymore. I will play out Warmind until July 13th and then I'm moving on to another game (or games). I wish everyone that sticks around the best of luck and hope these people can get something right for a change As for Bungie, you guys can go eat a garbage bag full of a dicks!
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6 RepliesEdited by JasperGTR: 6/25/2018 10:05:12 PMYup. This is the pattern of incompetence that has prevented me from spending any money after D1. It is extremely evident that Bungie has amazing designers and programmers but lacks the management to provide adequate direction and judgment. Lost another 3 sales ( I have several consoles I make purchases for). They probably won't care. I've officially had enough.
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2 RepliesThey’ve always been about ‘you play how we want’. Shit developer that I hope goes into liquidation soon.
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7 RepliesThat mechanic is awful and it shows the element of bungie I hate....they make these amazing sandboxes full of choice and potential, unbalanced sure, but fun as hell. I loved lobing gjallahorn around strikes but never could with this in it. I don’t understand why you would put so much effort into a game and drive players away by forcing them to play your way. As an adaptive gamer, limiting my play style choices to what everyone else is using limits my ability to overcome obstacles by making smart loadout choices, skill tree choices, whatever else. I love destiny. But at this point once a competitor comes along that respects an array of play styles comes along, I’m out.
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2 RepliesI understand what you're saying, but I think some people commenting are reading the first two paragraphs and then assuming your post is a big rant about the "Juggler" aspect, when it isn't. People, as stated, the OP has no issue with the "Juggler" feature, rather, the issue is with Bungie's continuously deceptive design practices, of which "Juggler" is a part of, along with the xp throttling, the various buff items and/or perks which have unknown percentage increases to know if they're really worth their price, the unknown percentage chance to gain special event items (if they aren't locked behind the Eververse paywall), etc... In fact, after the issue with Three of Coins, Bungie promised to be more transparent about what exactly the buff items will increase by making it more clear in the item descriptions (i.e. rather than the vague "Increases chance to get an Exotic from the world," we'd start seeing "Increases chance to get exotic from the world by x%"). So far, that hasn't happened, likely because the actual numbers are so laughably low, it'd be an admission that many of them are essentially worthless. Like with the xp throttling, and with the Dawning event, Bungie has yet to truly admit their scheming. They've always fallen back on the excuse of "we intended for this to do one thing, and we failed, we're sorry," essentially disguising their deceptive practices as a simple mistake they didn't intend. They either feign incompetence or, actually are incompetent, it's hard to tell these days but I think historically they're trending toward the latter.
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5 RepliesEdited by Subsistence_Sasquatch: 6/26/2018 9:18:08 PMI knew there was Juggler pretty early. You play the game and at some point think (I know, thinking hard!), huh, there sure seems to be some Juggler at play here. *Test*. Yup, cool. - [b]The more [/b]"minor gameplay mechanics you can figure out yourself but you will b**** about on the forums because BUNGIE!! and ACTIVISION!! didn't start up the choo-choo train, a spoon of baby food, a spoon of simple knowledge, to feed you with" [b]you know.[/b]
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It’s a game mechanic. Just learn to play the mechanics. You ran out of primary? Here’s a novel idea...use the energy weapon! Works the opposite way as well!
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I did not know running out of ammo was a problem! Maybe happened to me twice in strikes.
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9 months in an I've only just learned (From a Bungie mentor) that the raid milestone is just a reminder and not an actual milestone reward. You learn something new every day.
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3 RepliesSome of these replies showcase how much the average forum user misses a point lol OF COURSE it was obvious, doesn't mean bungie shouldn't have confirmed it and set a date for a fix.... With exp throttling, "oh it's obvious that you aren't getting as much exp as it said, they don't have to confirm that for you" -Lulz
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Edited by reece!: 6/26/2018 8:38:10 PMI don’t understand whats so bad about it... It gives the game variety and there definitely isn’t enough of it running around right now so whats the big deal. I swear some of you guys just live for coming to b.net and shitposting lmao.
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34 RepliesWow, the attitude of most of these replies. YES, a lot of us as players basically knew that juggler was an intrinsic mechanic to all gameplay in D2. NO, that is not the problem. The problem is the lack of transparency about this mechanic, which is arguably a big enough change from D1 that it should be something that is made explicitly clear to the player instead of being implicit through gameplay. The lack of transparency and thought for the player is what this post is getting at, and the admittance of the existence of juggler is simply the example being used of how Bungie isn’t transparent. OP could just as easily made the same point by talking about the XP throttling that happened months back, and just because players noticed it was talking a lot longer to fill their XP bar without Bungie telling them (i.e. in the same was as noticing juggler without being told) didn’t invalidate the fact that it shows a clear disregard for the customer and a lack of transparency from Bungie.
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16 Repliesso many people saying, "It's so obvious, who cares, etc." yeah it is obvious, so much so that bungie should have come out and admitted to it when the first few people questioned it. the fact that they are just now admitting it is a slap in the face to all the people that wanted a solid answer on it and the people that tested it, making videos and what not. most people in here don't even care that it is in the game, so much so that bungie shouldn't have had anything to worry about when letting players know about it. they're just too lazy and don't care enough about the people that play their shit game.
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1 ReplyEdited by GrundleBeans: 6/26/2018 7:50:52 PMI care that they be transparent, but I don't care about them hiding juggler as a thing. It's simply a mechanic of the game that was obvious to most people. I don't think it's an example of a lack of appropriate transparency just not being super explanatory about how a simple and apparent mechanic worked. Had they never said anything about Juggler, I would not be angry or confused in any way about them not "admitting" to it. It's as important as wanting them to "admit" how they hide traditional loading screens with flying in orbit instead. What I do care about are things that aren't base mechanics and are manipulations of outcomes, like the percentage chance of drop rates from different activities that may have different drop rates. I don't need anyone to do any math to tell me juggler is a thing, but we do have to do math to get a sense of what a drop rate likelihood is. Things like hidden manipulations that affect accuracy based on a circumstance. Like for instance, if you're on a streak in PvP, if there is a mechanic that makes every 4th shot miss regardless of your accuracy. Something like that matters more than encouraging users to swap weapons in order to get different ammo throughout every PvE activity, which was apparent from day 1. We never needed an admittance for something like that.
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And this is news because....? Juggler systems have been in usage for over a decade in gaming. Its practically SOP these says.
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18 RepliesIt's not that deep lol
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1 ReplyWrong, Juggler is is performing a combo in mid air not allowing your opponent to land thus leaving them defenceless.
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1 ReplyI figured it out early on....be more attentive!
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Did ANYONE actually believe juggler wasn't there to begin with? I have been playing as if it has been a factor this entire time.
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Juggler is annoying but I would rather they take the time to remove the code for glass and blackout permanently /dat nokris strike on blackout yo...
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Edited by Zero One Echo: 6/26/2018 5:42:55 PMAny of these "developer dissecting" gamers would not have survived an era of gaming where the biggest source for understanding the underline mechanics of a game was a magazine or old fashioned problem solving. Too much hand holding demanded from gamers today. Play the game and let your mind unfold the mystery. Critical thinking skills is one of the benefits to gaming. I say, give me more mystery mechanics. My mind will figure it out. If it is not apparent, then it's not a big enough mechanic to care about.
