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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Pnaraoh: 11/25/2017 12:30:09 PM
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What the Senior gameplay designer (Jon Weisnewski) said in Crucible Radio Ep. 126 concerning Destiny 2

[b]First I would like to say that I didn't write any of this, turboash78 in reddit wrote this down and credit goes to him. I didn't find any mention of this here and wanted the people who use bnet to know this useful information.[/b] [b]turboash78:[/b] So in this week's CR Podcast they talk to Mr.W about many of the design and gameplay philosophies that went into D2. Nuggets: - Sunshot = Firefly (too bad they had to take it away from Legendaries) - purposely reduced our access to high powered weapons to make the Crucible and the whole game better (wat) - moving secondaries to the power slot sucks but makes those moments more "potent" - focus on combined weapon loadout vs single-weapon-focused loadout - nerfing of cooldowns supposed to increase potency of the moments when you get to use them - slowing down TTK helps us decide what we should do at that moment (thanks!) - wanted to make PvP more exciting to watch on Twitch (I nearly spit out my coffee at this one) - team shooting doesn't put stress on us to land shots (lol holy shit at this one) - Wardcliff coil was supposed to be in D1 but it didn't have the proper launch platform - random to fixed rolls: random rolls too difficult to talk about with friends (no... seriously), fixed rolls better for casuals - players get items quickly and easily on purpose: for casuals and to attract new players to the game, tough shit for people who want to grind - random rolls too complicated to balance in PvP, goal to make fewer guns but spend more time on them and make them have their own identity/role (valid argument IMO, and I loved random rolls) - subclass set paths easier for us!!! "advanced players" pair their subclass with Exotics (= "depth") - "the depth is still there" (coffee spit-take somehow avoided) - ricochet rounds greatly help range - intrinsic weapon perks taken directly from D1 (Lightweight = lightweight, Rapid = spray and play, Precision = counterbalance, Aggressive = high caliber rounds) - high caliber rounds flinch greatly multiplied if you/your opponent is moving and is also scaled by weapon damage - every weapon has a degree of hcr (affecting both outgoing and incoming flinch) I recommend giving it a listen. Crucible Radio Ep. 126: https://t.co/YkjfcT4kOo I recommend listening to it if you have time. turboash78's reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/7f1e71/crucible_radio_ep_126_ft_jon_weisnewski/ Edit 1: [b]I'm glad I was able to inform the people who use Bungie forums about this information. From what I've seen most of the community doesn't like this 180 which Bungie has done. I however thank Jon for his honesty because the people who were meant to speak up [i]"community managers"[/i] clearly were too scared to say anything abut this. I however am very disappointed, the one game which I took serious for 3 years has been turned into a casual fest, they were so worried and focused on new players they forgot about the people who never gave up on them and this is what we get?! Really?![/b] Edit 2: [b]For the people blaming "Crucible guys" for the mess we're in just stop. Please just stop. I blame Bungie's inability to patch pve and pvp separately. But as you can see they are catering to the casual audience not [i]"CRUCIBLE GUYS"[/i]. You're throwing your discontent to the wrong people.[/b] Edit 3: Thanks for the 400

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  • Wow.. totally supports what allot of said. Everything was nerfed due to PvP. Great, thanks cry babies. Hope you enjoy the mess you created with all those nerf posts or suggested balance posts. Next time just enjoy the game for what it was, fun.

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    • Expect to see an article about the “Senior Designer having departed from Bungie due to philosophical differences between Bungie and him.” Or some formal corporate excuse along those lines due to him saying these things. I’m glad he said them, though. The customers needed to know this information.

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      • I knew it! Random rolls removed because 'effort'. Dammit! They killed the term God Roll when they removed that aspect of the game and left us with a one dimensional sterile game that plays at half the pace of D1. I've played more D1 this week than D2 and enjoyed it more. When you open the vault and browse your weapons, they're not soulless clones. Each one has character and a story to tell. So mad about this. I can't bring myself to buy the DLC until it's fixed.

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      • In the words of Abraham...suck my nuts Bungle. May the Osiris boycott begin.

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      • Yeah, they really -blam!-ed up a good thing. Slowing down the time to kill and forcing teamshooting as the only viable playstyle were a great way to make the game easy for children, but it sure wasnt a recipe for exciting or creative gameplay.

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      • The -blam!- does he mean about random rolls being too hard to discuss with friends!? If anything the random rolls would spark conversations! Like "What did you get on your Eyasluna? I got Outlaw and Rangefinder."

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        • Time to speak with your cash flow as a consumer. This will soon be a lesson taught at other developer meetings about what "not" to do. Aka Chappelle's show. When keeping it real, goes wrong. "It was at that exact moment, they knew they -blam!-ed up"

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        • Edited by Little Light: 11/24/2017 9:08:08 PM
          Wow bungie control your community they're going nuts.

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        • I think they know that ppl who played d1 and are angry about d2 r still gonna buy and try anything they put out. So they are not trying to please them instead, everything is aimed towards new players so they can make more money. All comes down to money.

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        • Edited by Sideswipe: 11/24/2017 6:45:06 PM
          [quote]- Sunshot = Firefly (too bad they had to take it away from Legendaries)[/quote] Sunshot actually feels like one of the few worthy exotics. Even though it's a slightly larger version of Firefly, it procs on any kill, not just crit-kills. [quote]- purposely reduced our access to high powered weapons to make the Crucible and the whole game better (wat)[/quote] So bring either bring up other weapons or keep special loss on death. Be more creative in finding solutions. [quote]- moving secondaries to the power slot sucks but makes those moments more "potent"[/quote] It invalidates and entire subsection of weaponry and totally destroys any sense of power for PvE. But who cares so long as it works for PvP, right? [quote]- focus on combined weapon loadout vs single-weapon-focused loadout[/quote] You mean running around using only secondaries, grenades, and ability spam? Did you even try to understand why we used the weapons the way we did? [quote]- nerfing of cooldowns supposed to increase potency of the moments when you get to use them[/quote] Then my grenades shouldn't suck and when I [b]finally [/b]to get to use my super, you have a mechanic that allows me to be 2 tapped while using it. Dafuq? You want it to be more potent, then make it difficult to counter or more lethal. [quote]- slowing down TTK helps us decide what we should do at that moment (thanks!)[/quote] Makes for an easy learning curve but also creates "frustrating encounters." Remember what happened last time we had those? [quote]- wanted to make PvP more exciting to watch on Twitch (I nearly spit out my coffee at this one)[/quote] Slowing down play and force teamshooting is more exciting? Destiny was already highly rated and watched on Twitch, many weekends it was in the top 5. How much higher were you expecting to go? [quote]- team shooting doesn't put stress on us to land shots (lol holy shit at this one)[/quote] So you don't want us to get better? Isn't hitting your enemy an integral part of the game? [quote]- Wardcliff coil was supposed to be in D1 but it didn't have the proper launch platform[/quote] Not even sure what this means. Launch platform as in which expansion it would shine in or couldn't program it to work properly? [quote]- random to fixed rolls: random rolls too difficult to talk about with friends (no... seriously), fixed rolls better for casuals[/quote] Wouldn't players talking about the game help them learn about the nuances and intricacies? [quote]- players get items quickly and easily on purpose: for casuals and to attract new players to the game, tough shit for people who want to grind[/quote] Sadly, that's their new model, kinda like Halo or CoD - campaign with a few weekly things to do, then the bread & butter - PvP. [quote]- random rolls too complicated to balance in PvP, goal to make fewer guns but spend more time on them and make them have their own identity/role (valid argument IMO, and I loved random rolls)[/quote] This could've worked if they offered more selection, even multiple set rolls for each weapon would be better, or at least make the perks more potent and not contradictory. [quote]- subclass set paths easier for us!!! "advanced players" pair their subclass with Exotics (= "depth") - "the depth is still there" (coffee spit-take somehow avoided)[/quote] This was done because Mark Noseworthy, a dev mind you, didn't know how to setup his subclass. I guess if a dev can't figure it out, we can't either? Or maybe just do a better job of teaching your players what the skills are, how to use them, and how to create synergy with them. [quote]- high caliber rounds flinch greatly multiplied if you/your opponent is moving and is also scaled by weapon damage - every weapon has a degree of hcr (affecting both outgoing and incoming flinch)[/quote] I've noticed that when getting sprayed, you can't jump full height and movement is affected. Hampering any ability to evade or find cover just seems to undermine my ability to "decide what to do" because even though I know what to do, I can't do it. D2 just reeks of PR spin to justify one stupid decision after another.

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          • 🤔 No wonder that J.W man is called a "senior".. This proves he totally doesnt understand players, about time he'd retire i would say.. Put the man on some love boat end send him far away. Time to bring in some designers who actually love to game themselfs.

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          • Edited by SHARTED: 11/24/2017 6:39:47 PM
            They got my $100 because im a complete idiot and ordered the digital deluxe version... they wont be getting another dime from me beyond that. I also have learned my lesson and no longer will i be purchasing season passes for any game i buy ever! Bungie has completely destroyed my attitude towards purchasing games from here on out! GG Bungie

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            • This is the same type of reasoning that got Trump elected.

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              • Lmao! “Making PvP more fun to watch on TWITCH!” Lol “greatest line of comedy ever written.” “O shit, he’s actually serious!” Bungo out of touch. This is the reason I have literally ZERO and I mean 0 hope for this game.

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                • The Bungie team is literally living inside of a dream world at this point, lol. I mean are they INTENTIONALLY ignoring these very forums every single day? Cramming their fingers into their ears and humming, hoping that all the angry players will just go away? I’ve been sitting here playing Iron Banner for a little while now and the phrase that I keep quietly repeating to myself is, “this game is so bad”. Seriously. Be adults, at least tell us straight up that you made this game for casuals and not Destiny 1 players. This is the absolute worst customer service I’ve ever seen in my life. As a long time Bungie fan it absolutely disgusts me to see the sorry state that my favorite game company is in. At least communicate with your customers. Can we get at least some kind of dialogue with the people who made the decisions that we all hate so much? The very reason that the forums are the way they are is because of Bungie’s silence. Deal with us directly. Answer our questions. Most of us bought the DLC for Destiny 2 without knowing a single thing about it, and now we don’t want to play Destiny 2 or the DLC. Doesn’t that at least deserve some explanation as your paying customers? Does customer service even exist at Bungie anymore?

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                  • Edited by CookieNiki: 11/24/2017 9:13:02 PM
                    It's really sad to hear to this. He's laughing about things that almost everybody in the community says it sucks. Right now my only regret is having bought the season pass, because it's pretty obvious that Destiny original vision died completely with D2. It could have been epic, a mark in gaming history, surely had the potential for that and the way D1 was being refined was promising, but the guys in charge of the franchise just don't have what it takes to get there. This has turned into CoD in space, this is not what made me come to Destiny in 2014 and kept me as a regular player for 3 whole years straight. I can't trust developers that completely ruin their own franchise and are too arrogant to admit it.

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                  • I seriously hope they fire everyone who worked on the physics end of destiny 2. I'm done. I'm really done. Will I keep playing the game? Right now I don't have a lot I can play with my friends until Anthem comes out. Sure there's plenty of solo games I can catch up on, and all of my friends absolutely hate this game now... So literally every time I load in all I hear is people screaming and cursing about how much of a failure Bungle shat out. They wanted to move the special weapons to the powered slot? Fine. But the fixed rolls need to die in a fire because it's literally the only reason in the middle people had to keep playing the game. Looking for that special weapon that was the most fun for them. People who weren't casuals but weren't raid fanatics or pvp addicts. Look. I'll sum it up in one go. How should Bunghole have known they had a failure on their hands? The Devils Dawn. A sniper rifle that might have looked kinda neat, but nobody used. Why? Because it was a good enough weapon... But not a great weapon. That should have told them then and there, that people just were not going to go for it. They need to abandon this direction as a failed concept, it's just not working.

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                  • If Jon could just realize they completely ruined PvP by removing any semblance of skill to cater to casuals the game could be saved in that front..it's not even that difficult to do either, just rebalance everything in a big overhaul. *Remove Bloom -[spoiler]Stop putting RNG in our gunfights so casuals can have a chance to win them on pure luck. It's a terrible design choice. [/spoiler] *Bring back D1 midair accuracy -[spoiler]Let players use their horizontal space to their advantage. Don't punish players for being evasive just because casuals sucked at dealing with them. [/spoiler] *Speed up our aerial movement -[spoiler]Part of the general "slowing down the game" which prevents good players from making plays to let casuals feel better about their own ability. Back to D1 please.[/spoiler] *Increase global TTK by 0.1-0.2 seconds -[spoiler]This is to cure the teamshoot fest D2 currently is. With faster movement and quicker kill times efficient players will be able to make plays without needing to hug their team, and can kill even if people decide to stick together. [/spoiler] *Reduce ability cooldowns -[spoiler]No brainer. This helps the game in PvP and PvE. All melees should take 30 seconds to come back except for ranged melees which should take 40. All grenades should take 40 seconds except for Bolt grenades which would take 30. Supers need to be taken to 3 minutes flat without any super gained from kills and the like. Adjust armor mods accordingly, class abilities are fine[/spoiler]. *Make Quickplay modes 6v6 -[spoiler]Just do it. [/spoiler] Just with those we'd be back to fun PvP. Also don't be afraid to experiment with Power Ammo more Bungie; like increasing spawns or having people drop their ammo on death to keep it in play a bit more.

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                  • If lethalviper wrote all those, people would say he's trolling ! Yet this is a senior designer.

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                    • I’m kind of speechless as to their assessments and vision. I’ll play my DLC that I’ve already paid for but I think that’s where my trip on the Bungie train ends. It’s no longer a game for me. If you love the game and it’s direction for the future then by all means enjoy but it’s no longer what brought me to Destiny in the first place.

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                    • Edited by DaMidniteHour: 11/24/2017 8:31:45 AM
                      See what I’ve tried to tell y’all? Bungie is entrenched in their own bubble. If you want to know why there hasn’t been much constructive criticism, here you go. EDIT: And it won’t be until 2018 the [i]earliest[/i] when they realize how bad they screwed up, sometime after Rasputin. By then, it’ll be too late.

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                    • [quote]team shooting doesn’t put stress on us to land shots[/quote] Did you hear about the new fifa?? The goals are as wide as the field! It’s puts less stress on getting goals! Or what about the new Crash Bandicoot? There is a trampoline under everything! It puts less stress on having to make the jumps! The new Uncharted where there’s an answer key on the screen for every puzzle? It puts less stress on having to solve the puzzles! The new Forza, where you only accelerate and break, the game steers for you! It puts less stress on being able to turn corners! Truly revolutionary ideas! [spoiler]This dev must be clinically brain dead, that’s the only explanation[/spoiler]

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                    • Yeah this is really sad..... I've been playing since just before the Taken King DLC dropped, and I have loved the world of Destiny that Bungie created for us. When Destiny 2 launched, I pre-orderec my copy (which I am now regretting) and dove headfirst into the campaign. Which I still think was done very well. Unfortunately, the developers haven't given players much to do that's worthwhile upon beating the story mode and raid. Reading this as well as the news about how the Curse of Osiris end game content is lacking (once again) continually causes me to lose hope for this franchise. I currently have no reason to sign on daily anymore, or even weekly for that matter. After these new DLC's come out I doubt I'll be returning to this game unless they decide to make changes that matter PS: On a side note I've been grinding for the Iron Banner gear this week and instead of being "rewarded" with new weapons or gear, I'm given some of the same gear I already received during the first event (which wasn't much) or the same gear that I'll be given from any other engram in the game. Really? Like, REALLY? This game has become a huge waste of time in my opinion.

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                    • I’m sure it might come off a bit different to hear him say it than typed short versions. But I knew most of these answers anyway. It’s obvious from the choices they’ve made what their aim has been. It can still be tweaked a bit to be better than what it is, and let’s hope it does. but it will never go back to what many loved.

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                    • Where is the BDF on this one? Have the crazed blind fanboys even lost their ability to defend this train wreck?

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                      • Way to kill off your own franchise, hubris, ego and arrogance.

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