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Edited by MC 077 Lasombra:
8/8/2017 2:52:07 PM
71
Exo number is not about resets
Having seen another post regarding seeing a reset and number change In D2 I decided to share this with everyone. Below is a copy of what I posted in that persons thread.
Well been fun debating but I'll probably not respond to anymore replies. No new counter arguments are being made, so read the comments. My own counter to my idea is below.
So start with, I have to point out that even the Exos aren't sure what the numbers mean. Let me explain why the number isn't related to resets.
Let's address a key fact. Exos came around sometime in the Golden Age but it wasn't near the beginning. To be generous let's say it was 100 years into it, that leaves two centuries of them being around before the Collapse.
So Banshee was reset 44 times in two centuries and not once since the Collapse? Same with every single Exo.
Not a single reset and number change since the Collapse? It's been centuries, even longer than the Golden Age. Not one instance of a Exo number changing?
If it had happened, they wouldn't be unsure. They would know since they changed the Exos number. So obviously it hasn't. These are numbers stenciled onto their bodies, not easy to change.
So which is more likely. That Exos have gone so long, in such dire conditions, without a reset and number change? Yet in the peaceful times of the Golden Age (before the Collapse) Banshee had to be reset 44 times?
Then we see Lakshmi-2. Same length of time only two resets. Cayde, only 6?
Doesn't it make sense, looking at it in that perspective, that Banshee-44 was simply the 44th Banshee Exo made? These are human minds copied onto hard drives, why can't they be copied more than once?
Who would go through so much trouble to turn man into machine and only make one master gunsmith? One top notch solider?
Name and serial number.
Now where else do we see this? How about our gear, weapons and ships? Remember all that white, green, blue and purple gear when you leveled up?
Weapons: https://www.bungie.net/en/Armory/Category?order=3&dir=2&categories=1&page=11
Armor: https://www.bungie.net/en/Armory/Category?order=3&dir=2&categories=20%2C22&page=14
It's all over the place, right in front of you the whole time. You just didn't connect the dots. Exos were made to fight the Vex.
How many people do you think Clovis Bray talked into destroying their flesh and blood bodies for a robot one to fight some alien machine race?
In that light, which is more plausible?
[spoiler] No one asked why we haven't seen the others if there is more then one of each. Amazing. So easy. Instead you guys fixate on that guess. Think people think! [/spoiler]
Edit: Wow quite the conversation. I'm glad to see people taking an interest. For the sake of clarity, I'm not debating wipes themselves, simply if they are related to the number or not.
Edit 2: I expanded on my idea in responses in many of your guys questions and challenges. I'll be adding those bits to the main body. In the meantime check out the various counter ideas and claims, lots of good stuff.
Edit 3: I'm surprised by the demands for concrete proof. Need I remind, again , that the reset idea is admitted by the Exos to be uncertain? I wonder why you don't question it to begin with or why you think uncertainty can only be countered by 100% certainty. I think people don't want to devalue their Exos. Understandable.
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1 ReplyI finally have some solid proof it's not a serial number, in an investigation at the tower in D2, Ghost says "the last entry on this was by Banshee-44 but he tried logging in so many times as Banshee-41 it locked him out, poor Banshee, all those reboots must be getting to him"
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1 ReplyVery intriguing post and theory. I suppose you wrote this on my thread about Guardians and their names, right? Allow me to reply to this theory. First of all, there is a mistake. Not yours, actually, but in general. Many Guardians say that the final number of an Exo's name indicates how many times the memory [i](or the system)[/i] of that Exo is been wiped and rebooted. That's not a certain factor. This is just a theory, it's a big "maybe" into the Destiny's lore, but, as I've just written, many Guardians assert this like something that is given for sure, like it's been confirmed somewhere. Not true. Even from the memories of Cayde-6 we know nothing sure about this. Let's say only for a pure theoretical speculation that that number indicates how many times an Exo's mind/memory/system has been wiped and rebooted. About this process we know nothing. Why and when an Exo's memory must be wiped, how much time this operation requires, if it's needed a specific kind of technology. Nothing. Banshee is been wiped 44 times maybe because he needed 44 wipes. The same is for Cayde and Lakshmi, we don't know if Lakshmi is older then Cayde or even Banshee, and maybe Saint-14 it's older then all of them put together. The Golden Age persisted for an unknown number of centuries. Then the Darkness arrived and there was a huge battle. We don't know how much time this battle lasted. Then we had the Dark Age and the City Age which is hypotetically said endured for 4 centuries before the Red War [i](and this "hypotetically" really hurts my nerves 'cos, for the Traveller sake, we arrived DURING the City Age, so we should know from how much time the City exists! Damn, our commander is there since it was a d-word farm!)[/i]. This ammount of time is so large and unspecified that every theory about it will be always uncertain. So, who knows? Maybe that number really indicate only a a sor of bar code or whetever, or maybe the number of wiping... we'll never know for sure, probably at least in D2 we won't get more information about the Deep Stone Crypt. Shame on Bungie about this. They created a great LORE, cos YES, Destiny HAS a great LORE, but it's been so f-word up that now it seems to be only a bunch of senselessness.
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1 ReplyI still believe resets. One of the biggest passive dialogues from banshee just leads right to that theory. [b][i][u]if[/u][/i][/b] it was name and serial number, how can you explain that the exos don't remember the theoretically countless number of their clones? You also stated somewhere that a master gunsmith wouldn't have seen too much action, so why would banshee 44 not remember his 43 clones that were walking around with him at one point?
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12 RepliesEdited by Zelrons: 8/5/2017 5:00:39 PMI'm noticing that you have no actual evidence and you're just using lack of evidence for the opposition as evidence in favor of your own opinion.
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4 RepliesWow OP! Long ass post that completely ignores both grimour, Cayde's journal and in game comnents from an npc exo. All either mention. Outright explain in the case of the journal or mumble about (banshee) resets corresponding to the number after the name.
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2 RepliesIt's their confirmed kill count.
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1 ReplyMaybe they made some mistakes coding the exos and had to reset, something similar to the Sylok, The Defiled card. It would make sense, if banshee was one of the original's, it would make sense that they messed up a lot, Rather than Cayde who was made just before the collapse.
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2 RepliesEdited by Rogue: 8/7/2017 8:56:18 AMJust wanna point out that the Lord Timur grimoire card says this. “Damn you, Exos!” The whisper game abandoned. “Do you even ponder the before? Or that number etched into your ‘flesh’? Do you see yourself in your dreams? Th—”. Taking this card into consideration along side Mysteries Vault of Glass 2, I would actually theorize that number actually represents how many times Clovis Bray rebuilt each Exo that died in battle. For example, they turn human Cayde into Cayde-1. Cayde-1 gets destroyed, so they upload Cayde's data/personality into another body, thus creating Cayde-2.
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It's not the number of AAA batteries it requires?
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1 ReplyOne of the things that came with the collectors editions of TTK was a journal of cayde's that tells a bit about his past experiences (and lives) as an exo. I didn't get a count of all the entries in the list, but I'm quite certain there were not more than 5 or 6 entires. As for banshee, the number of wipes also matching up with his number could also be coincidence. Anyway, the process of an exo being "wiped" could probably be explained if you dig around all the lore concerning exos and deep stone crypt. One of the theories about the need for wipes has to do with the eventual fragmentation of the human mind that exos are modeled off of. If you think of it similar to "rampancy" from the halo series it might make a bit of sense. As an exo becomes exposed to more and more information, eventually some knowledge will become corrupted, and cause contradictions within itself, so, wiping in this case would serve to keep the unit from going completely insane and becoming a danger to others. Anyway, just some stuff for thought.
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1 ReplyBanshee 44 says to himself occasionally "How many times have I been reset? Forty-two? Forty-three? Fourty... Four?..
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15 RepliesI see a flaw in this, you talk about Banshee, Lakshmi, and Cayde as if they've been around for around the same time, what if Lakshmi was Exo'd near the end of the Golden age? Or maybe it's to do with what field they're in and what information they carry, maybe the reason Banshee is the go to guy for weapons is he helped develop some of the guns we use now and then got wiped and sent to another facility to help develop another weapon and so on, getting wiped in between each facility, and like one story from where he says "it isn't a full wipe" and that some memories stay, so he had a bunch of partial knowledge of guns when the collapse happened and gained the other knowledge from when people would come to him for help after the collapse? Cayde was a body guard and probably didn't need his memory wiped often because probably he didn't carry sensitive knowledge, and I don't know what Lakshmi was Pre-Collapse so I have no clue about her.
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2 RepliesInteresting outlook. For me personally, no Exo getting wiped since the Collapse speaks to something else: A. The technology/program to perform the wipe successfully isn't readily available anymore. This seems pretty logical, given it was called "the Collapse." Or B. The current revisions of these Exos are considered valuable--probably because they saw the Collapse firsthand. Maybe their knowledge has actually become the closest thing to an accurate history book. These are just the thoughts that popped in my head when I read your post...so just conjecture on my part. Take care!
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10 RepliesAny proof?
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3 RepliesThen lakmishi-2 and Cayde-6 would probably have much older frames for their bodies, they'd be out of date, while Banshee-44 should be the most technologically advanced.
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Bungie already said it was memory wipes. How did you miss it?
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4 RepliesNo, it's about resets. And the reset is in regard to the number of times you have seen something you shouldn't have and had to be wiped. Cayde-6 has learned how to not get caught. Lakshmi-2 learned her lesson quickly. Banshee-44 is the definition of "the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time"
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Edited by Soul_Eater_42: 8/6/2017 12:44:58 PM[b] [/b]
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Its their top trumps sexiness rating. 1 being the highest.
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19 Replies"How many times has my system been wiped. 41, 42, 43?" "Shotty, as if I wouldn't notice. All my wipes, seen all the tricks." "What was the name of that officer? Only I remember her, and so little. How her rifle jammed, then gone." "What was her name. Fierce eyes, full of light. The hell was it." "Exos don't dream, he said. But what's dream, and what's memory?" *grumbles* "Just fix the gun, Banshee." "Of course I can. Forgotten more about guns than she's ever known." - Banshee-44
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1 ReplyBefore the traveler came and made it possible for your ghost to revive you with light, it seems plausible to me that if your exo frame sustained enough damage, a transplant of the human conscience would have been necessary to remain functional. The human mind is subject to forgetfulness. Imagine having to keep track of many lifetimes of memories. Not surprising that information is lost along the way after multiple resets. Certainly, some of the more battle hardened exos like banshee would have sustained greater and more frequent damage in battle, leading to more frequent resets. Explaining why different exos carry different numbers. Once the golden age collapsed, much of the old ways and technology were lost along with it. On top of that, the method used previously to reset the human consciousness into a new exo frame would have become obsolete with the advent of being able to be revived with light... Thus, explaining why it hasn't happened in this age. Definitely not conclusive evidence, but it makes the most sense to me.
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10 RepliesI think the line Banshee utters has really thrown a wrench into the works. Yes Bungie has confirmed that the number attached to their name is how many times they've had their memory wiped....but they haven't said what that actually means. It could be a near-complete erasing of their memory or something as simple as an overhaul defrag. I do like your idea because the first Exos were copies of Dr. Shim's team and they may have had specific functions. One thing I am confused about? Is Banshee a Guardian...
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2 RepliesOk let's talk here, I like your new approach to the numbers at the end of an Exo. However, there's so pretty hard evidence it's linked to the wiping or simi-wiping of an Exo's mind after mind altering or severely scaring events. Until you find so counter, you won't be able to prove your theory.
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5 RepliesEdited by Vortex: 8/6/2017 6:49:50 AMBanshee says something about forgetting/ having a memory wipe. He say a few numbers until 43 and fades out... It's very rare though. You need to walk past every now and then at the tower. I'm sure you can find a video about him saying that on YouTube
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16 RepliesYou realize it's been confirmed that each number does in fact represent the amount of times their systems and memory have been reset, right?
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2 RepliesAfter reading the post I have a theory. I don't know if anyone has stated it before but here it goes. IF the number is about resets then this makes sense. So Banshee would have had his memory reset 44 times. Lakshmi would be 2. If you consider that only some human minds were uploaded to Exo bodies but not all Exos were once human then the difference is in their origins. Now if we take human age into consideration then we must ask how old the individual was when uploaded and the likely probability that a "reset" is merely to the point of upload and likely not a limit on data. This would cause frequent resets for any who were uploaded later in life. Especially since life spans were increased. Now we take into consideration what model (specs) their bodies were when built when actually built for either one. As with [i]everything[/i] else there were likely multiple models. As for the Exos that developed consciousness through the source code and thus purely machine and operating system, a "reset", like any computer, would only have basic programs to start off with but could save some files on a separate system for upload later like reference data. If you take all this into consideration then it logically is possible as Banshee would have been human but not Lakshmi. Again this is only a theory but is logically sound.
