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Edited by Cozmo:
11/15/2016 12:42:00 AM
782
SIGN THE SBMM REMOVAL PETITION
if everyone does this it WILL get noticed.
http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/remove-sbmm-from-destiny-pvp
EDIT: Deej and Cosmo, how many up-votes do you need for this large section of the community to receive the appreciation and acknowledgement they deserve?
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. See [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0]Cozmo's thread[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
English
#feedback
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When I have both shotgun AND melee hit noises, but the other player kills me with their shotgun, THEN they die, yea, we need a better connection. And this is green bar to green bar, and it is happening more and more. With less people in crucible, this is magnified even more. Trials used to be amazing because it was CBMM. It has been HORRIBLE the past year or so. Please please please allow me to come back and play trials with a pleasant experience.
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SBMM isn't in the game though...... remember? Bungie said so.
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Edited by SergioVengeance: 11/16/2016 2:12:27 AMIf I go into Classic Playlists or any other game mode other than Trials... I shouldn't have to sweat like EVERY DAMN GAME like I am on a 8-0 card from Trials.
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-blam!- SBMM
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Bump but where's the anti-cheat
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1 ReplyEdited by IDusty Jackson: 11/16/2016 3:48:13 AMAn honest question: Could any one thing really save PvP rn?
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bump bump bump
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Hybrid approach would be better. SBMM and CBMM would be perfect. This is how year one was if my knowledge is correct.
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Signed
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1 ReplyTried signing your petition, says my postal code is invalid. This must not work for people in the west coast, USA.
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Remove it
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1 ReplyIt will not accept my postal code someone give me one you entered
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2 RepliesIm fine with SBMM. I dont really notice much lag when playing.
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Stopped playing destiny period cause they are leaving the game to be a mess. The crucible is garbage now and they are to busy making destiny 2 to fix it. So if your tired of the stupid lag in pvp just go play battlefield 1 or something and chill till destiny 2 comes out. Lol. Cause you know they don't care about the community while they are making the next big game. (Slow clap on bunnies part)
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Signed....<{}----
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Looks like only UK players can sign the petition.
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2 RepliesEdited by Knightlight: 11/15/2016 11:51:03 PMIT'S OVER 1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Alright, here we go the most infamous discussion currently to be part of these threads: SBMM. Yay or Nay? In this discussion, I will be addressing both the positives and negatives on this debate, and will try to see from both viewpoints. Just a footnote though, I am in the top 1% and have a 2.05KD with 3000+ hours into Crucible alone and been playing since Dark Below, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to SBMM and the Crucible in general. [b]Let's start with the Pros of SBMM:[/b] - [b]Allows[/b] unskilled players to have balanced matches with other unskilled players, allowing them to slowly be introduced into the Crucible. - [b]Makes[/b] games more equal for both sides, seeing that there would be no major skill gaps. - [b]Makes[/b] it less likely for unskilled players to be pubstomped. [b]Unfortunately, those are really the only Pros of SBMM. Now, let's look at the Cons:[/b] - [b]Since[/b] skill is prioritized over connection consistently, and connection is hardly considered at all, (Don't argue with that one: 95% of the Destiny Community agrees with that), games are lagging all the time. Red Bars are always in the lobbies, and it makes matches unplayable. People are matched up with other people across the world sometimes, which is just unacceptable in any game, even with dedicated servers. - [b]Matchmaking[/b] times take minutes on end to find one match, no matter the playlist. - [b]Matches[/b] for people above 1.5KD's are always a constant sweaty match, which makes the Crucible more a chore and less a casual experience. I can't use any "fun" loadouts anymore (Red Death with Saladin's Vigil and Defender anyone?) because each match is a competetive mess just to get above at least 10 kills. I don't mind playing a sweat every now and then, but every single match? That's just frustrating, infuriating, and most of all, dissapointing. - [b]It limits[/b] the diversity of weapons, armor, and subclasses in the Crucible: Shotguns are rampant and snipers are nearly unusable. Auto Rifles are garbage, while High ROF pulses and Palindrome handcannons are dominating the meta. Anyone who doesn't use these types of gear is already at a [i]major[/i] dis-advantage, and has to use those weapons just to play, much less win and enjoy the actual game. - [b]It discourages[/b] playing with people in fireteams who have great stats, especially if your fireteam members are new to the game, because it takes the player with the highest stats and pairs the fireteam with people of that skill, which makes it impossible for the other members to play. Some people (typically ones below 1.0KD's) are concerned that if SBMM is removed, then low skilled players will be destroyed over and over again, but that isn't true. Keep this in mind: 1/100 Destiny players is in the top 1%, so the chances that you will run into one of them is very, very slim. Most games will be only a skill gap of about 0.1-0.2, which isn't that much of a difference. Also, there is concern that games will be more difficult, but that is a positive thing. Playing people of the same skill level when said skill level is so low doesn't help either player get better: mistakes are forgiven and getting better is very, very slow. I started off as most people do: a noob. I had good matches where I did well, and I also had matches where I got my a** handed to me on a plate, but I [i]learned[/i] from these experiences. I got better quickly, and now I am in the top 1%: not through playing people of my skill every time, but losing to people who are better than me. [b]There are many more cons to list, but those are the major ones. Now, what is the solution to this?[/b] Simple: bring back Year 1 matchmaking. Year 1 matchmaking was a blend of CBMM [i]and[/i] SBMM. CBMM was favored more heavily, creating much better connections, then a dash of SBMM was also there to make sure that top tier players weren't thrown in with the absolute bottom tier players. This created very smooth games with decent equalization on both teams, making the experience enjoyable for all. On top of this, here's another way to keep bottom tier players from getting destroyed (even though it is highly unlikely). Add SBMM for new players that lasts until they have 5 hours into the Crucible (an average game is 10 minutes, so you can get 30 games done in 5 hours), and once that time is reached they will be put into the Year 1 matchmaking process. This allows new players to be introduced by playing people of their skill, and once they are comfortable enough they will be introduced into normal Crucible. [b] So, to recap what needs to be done:[/b] - Year 1 Matchmaking needs to be brought back to normal Crucible, even Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris, although increase the SBMM just a hair in that algorithem for the latter two. - Add SBMM protection for players under 5 hours of Crucible time, allowing them to get adjusted slowly. Again, these are just my thoughts, but I think this could potentially work very well. And Bungie, remember that if you try this out and it doesn't work, you can always change it back: nothing is set in stone. Before I go I want to leave with this: [i]No one asked for SBMM in Year 1, and ever since you implemented it without telling us at first, everyone's been having a worse Crucible experience.[/i] Diversity is at an all time low, fun loadouts are nearly non-existent, lag is everywhere, matchmaking takes forever, and having fun in generally is hard to come by. People would rather play people of different skills that have great connection rather than people of their skill but terrible connection. Things need to change, and Year 1 matchmaking was the best. Please, consider this proposal and at least try it: I'm sure it will work. Your Crucible slave, -xBriarlightx
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My vote is to keep SBBM, with minor tweaks.
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2 RepliesWhat's the point? If it was to be changed the only outcome would be that the 59% would then complain to change it back .lol get good.. or at least stop crying
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2 RepliesDownvoted
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8 RepliesEdited by lvxMoNSTeRxvl: 11/15/2016 8:54:53 PMI will not sign, you have stolen this post and reworked it with a few words, take this crap down
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12 RepliesEdited by Kallum: 11/16/2016 1:45:37 AMSigned. For everyone who feels that SBMM should remain, I respect your opinion and understand that you have your reasons. Originally, I liked the idea of being put against players who were of a higher skill than myself. Why? So I could learn to better my play and improve my skill in the crucible. Little did I expect it to make the crucible so rage inducing and unpleasant. However, I also have an opinion on why I believe SBMM should removed from Destiny, or redesigned at least, and why I think that a very sizable chunk of the Destiny community would be happy if it was removed. Let me start by letting you all know that I'm a day one player. Yep, I've been playing Destiny for a very long time. Destiny is by far one of my favourite and most played games of all time. I've seen how the game has developed over the last two years and two months, and I've been a part of its evolution like all of the other enthusiastic players in the Destiny community. I feel that a lot of improvements have been made in the PVP area such as removing the ability to pick up heavy ammo dropped by enemy players when they die, balancing secondary weapons such as shotguns (range, ammo capacity) /snipers (flinch, field of view) /fusion rifles (improved range, improved accuracy) /side arms, less heavy/special crates in games, losing your special ammo if you switch your secondary after you die. All of these small improvements, while some of you may disagree, the list goes on. I do feel, however, that Bungie aren't the best when it comes to balancing primary weapons. There is always a dominant primary weapon in the crucible that is frequently overused. Why? Because it is superior to all other primary weapons, in most instances, and has the fastest time to kill. As a result, a huge chunk of the community complains to Bungie that "said" weapon is too "OP" or "broken" and they want it to be nerfed. Bungie then acknowledge that "said" weapon is very dominant so they do indeed nerf it. This is great for the players who complained, but they are doing themselves no favours in my opinion. Why? Because along comes another weapon that becomes popular and overused and you're right back where you started. When top tier players get these weapons, I find it extremely unpleasant because I'm unable to compete with my level of skill. Take the Doctrine Of Passing as an example. That auto rifle had an extremely fast time to kill. If you were using it, you would be extremely successful in 1v1 situations and other scenarios. It must be said that he who is on the receiving end didn't really stand a chance because the combination of the DPS, the rapid fire rate, and the flinch all made for a very strong weapon. A weapon that was challenging to compete with. Players within the community complained that it was too "OP" and that it was "broken" so it got nerfed. And players then found a new gun which was extremely powerful. The good ol' Grasp Of Malok. You can see where this is going. I think that Bungie should consider buffing the stats on other primaries rather than nerfing the popular ones so that they are equally powerful and have a fast time to kill like the weapons we see being overused and abused. At least this way, there would be a much greater variety of guns being used. For example. Right now, nearly everyone I encounter in the crucible is abusing the Clever Dragon because it is extremely powerful and has a fast time to kill. Personally, I like to use hand canons. However, being the average passive player that I am, I find it impossible to have fun and play casually in PVP now because I am matched up against top tier players, thanks to SBMM, majority of whom are using Clever Dragons. Annoyingly, my hand canon can't compete. It doesn't matter if I am close to my foe, or far, or even if I get the pre-shot on them. I can't land the shots I need. Perhaps I need to "get good", but that isn't the point. Yes, you could say that I should go with the meta and just use a Clever Dragon like everyone else and stop complaining. But why should I have to use a specific weapon to have a remote chance of doing well because most of the other primaries (hand canons, scout rifles etc) can't kill fast enough? Besides, I suck anyway so what good would I be doing myself? Lol. As for my PVP play style, I am a very slow and cautious player. I don't go all guns blazing and challenge everyone I see like a warrior. I like to just sit back and play casually because I'm not a highly skilled competitive player like the players I get matched up against. Due to my passive play style and the combination of the many hours I've put into the crucible since day one of Destiny, my Elo is rather high. And my K/D is above average too. THESE FACTORS DO NOT DEFINE MY SKILL. I remember before SBMM was implemented and before the old meta was nerfed when I could play crucible casually and have fun with my friends. It seems all too comon now that we just complain when ever we play crucible because we get pub stomped nearly every match, whatever the game mode, by full fireteams and such. Most teams are made up of players using Matador 64s and Party Crasher +1s who just run at you. I also remember when primary weapons were extremely powerful. I'm sure you all do too. Thorn, The Last Word, Hawkmoon, Suros Regime and all the other over used primaries we all loved and hated. Personally, looking back, I would much rather that meta again. (I think that was great). Why? Because much more people actually used and relied on their primary rather than their secondary and if you were being rushed by a shotgun warrior, for example, you could whip out The Last Word and put them down before you got mapped by a Felwinter's Lie. Hopefully Bungie becomes aware that many players within the Destiny community want rid of SBMM. And we also want the crucible to be fun. Which for many of the players, it is not. It's a shame to see what the crucible has evolved into since I started playing Destiny. I hope your team is acknowledging the community's feedback and that you do something about it soon. It would make a lot of people happy. Even if you won't remove SBMM, why not have an option to select whether you want to use SBMM before a game? i.e. If someone wants to play a casual game of control, or rift, etc. They can select regular matchmaking CBMM possibly, and if they want to step it up and play competitively, they can select SBMM instead. Even something as simple as that could do wonders for the community. Here are a few polls I have found online regarding SMBB on whether people would like to see it remain, or whether people would like it removed from the game. Though they are small polls, they still show that majority of the people who took part in the votes said they'd like to see SBMM removed. I think it would be a great idea if there was a set date where players who load up Destiny are greeted with a simple poll before they log in asking them to vote for or against SBMM. This would be a great way to see how the active players really feel. POLLS BELOW: http://www.strawpoll.me/3422712/r https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/45dtld/should_bungie_do_what_treyarch_did_and_turn_off/ http://m.imgur.com/as8Tin3?r Over and out.
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5 RepliesEVERYONE LISTEN BUNGIE: People want SBMM gone. Do it, in a certain way though. PEOPLE OF THE DESTINY UNIVERSE: First, make one post. Second, think about the community as a whole. Instead of screaming REMOVE IT in every forum post, try to come up with a compromise. I'm willing to bet that there are people that enjoy the SBMM and don't want to see it gone. HOW TO PLEASE EVERYONE: Bungie for the love of god add options. Do what Halo 5 has done and add searching options. If people want to have a more Skill biased matchmaking, then let them choose that. Vice Versa. But make sure to have a medium, and a medium for that medium. Like a scale of 1-5. Simple solve there. Ta da. Everyone is happy. PS: also do this for the trials game mode that was introduced in Festival of the Lost. Options Bungie. Options.
