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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
10/12/2020 10:09:27 PM
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A problem with all of Destiny's big villains just occurred to me.

They're freaking incompetent! How did I never think about it and never realise how trash they are? The Last City is just that. A city, with a small naval fleet and not much more than the guardians to protect it. Yet all of these massive forces ten times as strong just make the stupidest decisions and get wasted. Oryx has allegedly eradicated countless species. I don't see it. He rocked up in Sol with his Dreadnaught, a beast of a ship, but only a tiny fleet that the Awoken were able to do enough damage to to force him to use his big wipe the field weapon. I can't imagine the Awoken are exactly a naval powerhouse of the galaxy like the cabal so his fleet was terrible. If your fleet is so bad that you're going to be forced to just destroy them all anyway and strand yourself by Saturn at slight resistance then what was the point of even bringing them? Just bring the Dreadnaught itself. Don't even get me started on the fact that you can apparently scrape some hive gunk together, put it on a ship and cloak it and waltz a strike team onto the Dreadnaught to wipe out it's greatest weapon just like that. It barely even had security. Ghaul, courtesy of the Nine, managed to get an entire space fleet into the city and sap the Guardians of their light. Yet, instead of getting to work killing all of the humans while he googly eyes' the Traveler, his massive fleet just what? Sits there? The Guardians lead a ground strike assault on the City without even having their light and yet the Cabal get pantsed. All you had to do was send one of those many ships to fire a bunch of missiles at their assault. The Cabal forces occupying the city seem to be overwhelming, so why were none of them leading a counterattack? Where did they go when the Traveler awakened? Because it seems like a whole bunch of ships just disappeared off the face of the Earth. All you had to do was bombard the City, make sure you don't hit the Traveler and you're set. But nope, that was apparently too hard for Ghaul to do, despite him being touted as a masterful tactician. The Vex I can forgive as they realistically are for the most part passively doing their own thing until we attack them, rather than trying to assault Earth. The Fallen are good, they aren't supposed to be some colossal threat but something more on humanity's level and their attacks have actually shown some ingenuity on their part, unsuccessful as they were. The City has super plot armour, and the fact that none of these supposed galactic powerhouses can destroy one city, which admittedly has a very formidable infantry but a weak navy, is hard to believe. When it's only because the opposing forces make dreadful decisions, it diminishes our feats. We didn't win because we were great, we won because they sucked. Destiny lore and design are great, but big lore characters seem to translate terribly to the actual present story in the game itself.
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#lore #destiny2

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  • What if we are the villains, and we conquer everything else based off of what the Traveler wants us to do. Maybe we are the evil army of undead Golden Age soldiers, and the other races in the solar system are struggling because they don't get unfair super powers to kill everything with. Lets wipe out these Hive in genocide for trying to invade above Saturn, and also because we lost in the initial assault that we instigated on the Moon against their kind. Lets go pick a fight with the Cabal military to establish dominance on Mars. Lets take Venus back from time travelling simulant alien things that overtook it, with whom we started a fight with. Lets wipe out these Fallen pirate guys for following the Traveler around, instead of making peace with them and forming alliances, even though they aren't exactly malevolent. Their collapse wasn't dissimilar to our own.

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  • you answered your own question, the villains think that we are way weak. when oryx came, he didn’t come to wage war with his army, he came to kill all the guardians by himself, there was mission where he spoke to us. Light, give me your will or something like that.

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  • Edited by demonbane343: 10/17/2020 4:31:08 AM
    I am not reading all that but I will say the awoken did jack-shit to the dreadnought, they were not the cause of it stay where it is, it had already stopped when they arrived. Also, Oryx came as a angry and grieving father, that clouded his actions and allowed us to gain the upper hand.

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    • Despite the examples provided, there are some huge details that needs to be addressed to your topic. 1) Oryx's fleet was mighty while he was united with his sisters, Savathûn and Xivu Arath. They left him to outgrow him, and find their own path, their own journey. The once majestic Hive united fleet, was then split in three parts, losing a lot of firepower such war moons, for example, not mentioning two other Hive gods. This is particularly evident in this passage of the Books of Sorrow: "[i]Then sayeth Savathûn, “Siblings, listen, we must part ways a while, so that we may grow different.” She flies her war-moons into the black hole. Her throne becomes distant. Sayeth Xivu Arath, “King Oryx, you take up too much space, your power constrains too many choices. I must go away from you.” She flies her war-moons away into the night. Her throne is barred shut. Then Oryx was alone. He spent a while in thought, and those thoughts are recorded here.[/i]" [b]Books of Sorrow Verse 5:4 — The Gift Mast[/b] The second point is... the Awoken fleet was a major threat to Oryx's fleet, and the battle was in an impasse. That caused the Taken King to take a major decision: to fire his paracausal superweapon and annihilate all the resistance, plus his own fleet. This left his armada less operative when he took the next step: attack the Cabal forces in the area (we are in the Asteroid belt here, so Mars was the next strategical and logical target). He then took out their hold on Mars and the surroundings, breaking a stalemate that lasted for years and forcing the warring Cabal to send a distress signal for help. This alone lets you understand how much powerful was the almighty Dreadnaught even stripped off from the big chunk of fleet lost with the battle against the Awoken. While this whole thing happened, a stealth operation, with a renown Guardian, made the Vanguard to have a foothold inside the Dreadnaught and a chance to take the superweapon down before the vessel could reach Earth's range. Oryx, then, could not make the final move on the Traveler as planned and had to deal with our threat. All these events could appear as slower in actual time than in narration, but they were fast enough to effectively hinder Oryx's plan. 2) Cabal chain of command relied on Ghaul's authority. When we struck back and the Traveler dispatched him, the whole Red Legion was in disarray. That's when Calus came in the play. He diverted the loyalties and took advantage of the void of power left by Ghaul. Val'Cauor tried to take this back, but we eliminated the threat. We actually took years to get rid the majority of the system of the Red Legion too. 3) The Vex are not interested in threatening us. While we see their planet-converting actions and time incursions as an aggression, they are solely exploring possibilities. Their purpose is an "entelechy of zero and ones", as once stated, a programmatic search for the order in the universe - their order. The Vex simulate everything as a way to understand the universe, so an effective way to simulate something is to change the parameters and make them simpler. So, their action to simplify the universe are focused on that. It's a mathematic way to operate, that exists outside the dichotomy of Light and Darkness. Also, remember that the Vex are operating outside this whole conflict, as they are not sided (explained in the lore book "Revelations" and in many other situations, such as the very end of "Interference" quest. Last thing: while I can agree that a massive attack toward the City will definitely live it crippled if not destroyed, this is not likely to happen in order to not disrupt the gameplay idea behind Destiny too. From a lore standpoint, I would like to see a major fleet protecting the city, maybe by uniting the Factions and getting the Dead Orbit one working as an armada. This will require some major changes in the lore, but it is still feasbile. Do not forget, however, that we as Guardian are the best weapon against these large threats: acting as a commando with incredible powers, we are fulfilling the last defensive plan by the Traveler, creating a very mobile force formed of many targets, instead of a single, less mobile, big target (such as a fleet). I hope I answered all the points :)

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    • Hopefully Savathûn proves to be a good villain. I mean, her whole schtick is that she's really smart, so it'd be kinda dumb if she turned out to be an idiot.

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    • Plot armor, much like karma, is a b**** my friend. [spoiler]Sorry, all out of salt. [/spoiler]

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    • Crota sat in his throne world where he was invulnerable to everything except a specific hive sword, he then gave that sword to a knight and let him stay in that same throne world not even fifty yards away.

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      • Ok hold up, the Nine disabled the City’s sensors to let the Red Legion invade? Source?

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        • I never got how oryx had taken thousands of worlds but just used vex cabal and fallen on us, where's the thousands of other races he's taken?

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          • Ghaul thought we'd be scared of his laser pointer aimed at our sun. Bruh...we eat laser pointers for breakfast.

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            • Here's the thing We stopped Oryx BEFORE he made his way to earth, and we were lucky enough to have him primarly focus on the Guardian who killed Crota rather then the traveler itself Its stated many times in lore cards that those around Oryx believed this to be a bad move, claiming that it was the motivation of a father and not a king. So yeah, Oryx was stupid but not the way you're thinking As for Ghual it was a combination of his desperation to be deemed worthy by the traveler as well as his pride. When Ghaul kicked Calus out of the empire he never took up the title of "Emperor Ghual" due to the fact he realized the Cabal wouldn't accept him as Calus' runner up and would probably rise up against him. Ghual could've drained the traveler easily and conquerd the universe with a legion of light infused Cabal a week after he took the last city. But his desperation to prove himself to the Cabal was his down fall Vex I think I remember hearing that they actually freeze up in the presence of the traveler? Not sure if that's canon but it would explain a lack of Vex in earth Fallen have tried multiple times to tack the traveler back, always failing in the end

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              • Earth is going in Lightfall, change my mind.

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              • I mean, I have over 800,000 kills in pve, and I’m just one guardian. We are just as monstrous as anything the bad guys can throw at us. I’m surprised that they can reproduce fast enough to keep up with our blood lust

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              • I feel like the fallen are a pretty nice species but they are just highly religious and territorial. Cabal, I feel like cant live without luxuries. The cabal homeworld sounds like a really nice place to live in Vex are just robots Id say their pretty close to being the main enemies if it werent for the hive and taken Hive and Taken are mindless zombies following orders from the big 3 1 of which oryx is dead. Id say Oryx isnt as bad as a villain as most people say in the comments because we are still seeing the damage he has done its not over yet even though hes dead, plus im still hyped for Savathun just saying. Scorn, were around for one expansion personally their my least favorite species in lore aspect. Siva is badass you cant tell me otherwise since Sivas goal wasnt even targeting the tower, so you could call it filler content but personally i really liked it and is one of my favorite d1 expansions.

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              • None of them have ever been Human, Awoken, or Exo I know. Uldren doesn't count. We never fought him in a boss fight.

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              • To be honest I was going to say because bungie made 20 to 100 ft enemies and made them super weak in comparison to what they should be capable of. I mean seriously get rid of all the stupid mechanics that would initiate a dps phase and what do you have. An enemy that does close to nothing an has nothing more to defend itself than summoning minions to slow down progress. As much as it can be blame they are incompetent. I say bungie is the one who are incompetent and have zero imagination or creativity.

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                • Pretty sure it’s all baddies from all film, games, books etc ...

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                  • And Donkey Kong should have thrown his barrels more efficiently. You’ve really turned up something nobody has thought of before.

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                    • In Oryx's defense how was he supposed to know that there were space witches ready to disable his entire fleet

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                      • Yeah. If the covenant from halo attacked the solar system. It wouldn't be much of a fight. Apparently its disputed weather massive amounts of radiation interfere with resurrection. If that's the case they could just glass the city or even half of the planet like they did in reach. We don't have the fire power to take down an assault carrier much less a super carrier such as the long night of solace. Not even the queen has the firepower to take out a Covenant Fleet. The hive don't seem to have much of a fleet. They don't have fighter craft, only tomb ships. If the cabal were actally good with military tactics. As soon as they made those barriers around the attackers, just send a giant missle and that's the end of d2. For a race that "blows up moons for getting in the way" they don't have much firepower. If they did why didn't they just nuke the city surface no need to cage the traveler. The fallen are just weak as they should be. The vex are weird, they keep getting screwed but never bothered to deploy combat frames against us.

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                        • Oryx almost destroyed the vex. A race that exist across infinite realities. His power speaks.

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                          • Haven’t you figured it out? It’s because you’re the bestest Guardian evar!

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                          • The lore and story actually sucks because the story does not drive the game as in books and movies. The story is basically bungle using disjointed crap to tie together what ever content is easiest to reskin or reuse.

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                          • Reading the part about Oryx made me think about Star Wars. How one guy in a small fighter was able to blow up a planet annihilating space ship the size of a moon. It's called fiction my dude. It doesn't have to make sense.

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                            • Zero stakes. We know we win. Nothing of consequence ever happens.

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                            • See no one ever listens to Ripley. Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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