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Edited by O B Jon Kenobi:
4/2/2020 11:43:05 AM
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A vast majority of players want a flawless playlist. For once in your lives, listen to us and not the top tier players
This is a golden opportunity to make something right. Don't put a spin on it, just do it. Add a flawless playlist, don't allow card resetting until the card is finished, and put more tokens, cores, prisms, and/or shards in the flawless playlist. Don't seek streamers input first. You have all the input you need right here on the forums, and it's overwhelming. Do it now!
Edit:
Everyone that says a flawless playlist is a bad idea hasn't provided a single solution to bring in less skilled players. Most never even tried the game mode because they knew they were gonna get stomped, and the ones that did try, checked out after 1 week. Incentives to not reset your card and to go flawless doesn't bring in more players! This is not rocket science, people. The playlist will always consist of nothing but sweats unless sub par players feel like they have a chance at the ultimate prize. This is such a simple fix.
Edit 2:
Everyone that is saying Trials isn't for everyone; if you don't like it, don't play it; it's meant as endgame PvP... you people are so obtuse, you don't even realize that thinking is killing the mode. There is no reasoning with such an irrational thought process.
Edit 3:
Lastly, everyone that is saying this will make it super easy to go flawless but complain that the flawless playlist will be nothing but sweats, can't even see the contradiction in their brainless words.
English
#destiny2
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7 RepliesFlawless is something you earn. Not something you cry to mom and dad about until they break down and give it to you.
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I just want to point out one issue I see with this. If this were implemented, and let's say you get your flawless runs and now you're playing other people who got flawless, what happens when you wanna play with your friends that haven't gone flawless? Do they get thrown in to the playlist with other flawless? Or do you get to go back in with them in the non-flawless playlist? Is either scenario fair?
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7 RepliesEdited by Optic: 4/1/2020 9:18:18 PMlol I'm an unbroken player that already hit legend during the first few days of this season. So I'm a pretty decent player (not the best but decent enough). And honestly it would be nice to have a separate playlist for people that went flawless already because when I play crucible I either play with my friends or solo and not all of my friends are top tier (meaning not the greatest) so we struggle sometimes. But they're my friends so I'm not going to just abandon them so I can get my flawless. So It would be nice not having to sweat the entire weekend for once and I would rather not lfg and try to meet some toxic posts requirements because those people complain about the smallest mistakes like somebody that stubbed their toe on a coffee table. And I'm not going to play with that type of radioactive waste. So I'll welcome a separate flawless playlist.
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Making going flawless more incentivized with exclusive loot would be nice. A lot of people are going for flawless but for what? An emblem? A temp glow on armor that should be optional anyway? Nah I don’t even get why people are stressing going flawless when you can get basically everything from playing over time. Yet besides flawless loot, playlist loot is also lacking in amount and format. Having playlist specific loot like perhaps the watcher armor and then bounties for everyone to complete on their own time for gear should fix it. The loot is already pretty easy to get currently but it would make it even easier given the bounty format would just be playing the game, not exclusively doing well. Keeping the current system and then taking the prestige and challenge from the lighthouse is not the answer. Also to the perceived contradiction that it would be harder for everyone to go flawless with sbmm but going flawless would be too easy is a misunderstanding. What people are saying is that for the ends of the skill spectrum, the very bottom guys without thumbs and the destiny pros, going flawless would be very easy. The middle of the pack would be punished for essentially not being bad at the game. That along with everyone not having the same challenge would remove what prestige is left from going flawless as is. Throwing in sbmm is only to appease the the very bottom of the pvp food chain. Pvp doesn’t need an easy mode. There’s no raid setting for when I want to not learn it and not coordinate with others. Why should there be one for endgame pvp?
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Edited by Maxwell: 4/3/2020 7:05:28 AMThe problem with this is that it doesn't really fix the problem. Friday the elite players will go flawless. Saturday the sweats who lost to the elite players the day before will go flawless because they are no longer in the same playlist. Sunday the good players will go flawless due to the sweats not being around anymore. In the end, by Monday all the casuals this was designed to help will have stopped playing because they spent the last 3 days getting farmed by the elite, sweats, and good players. The result is the same as now, in my opinion, but bungo won't do anything so the whole point is moot.
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51 RepliesAt some point you just have to get better at the game. Skilled players are already punished with SBMM in all the other playlists.
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1 ReplyEdited by xS0LIDERx: 4/1/2020 9:51:43 PMIf you suck you should not go flawless. Jesus. It is supposed to be hard not a hand out. I probably will not go flawless and that is ok. Im not amazing at pvp. Im not complaining. Crying because others are better then you is .......... god i can't believe how entitled everyone is..... sad... just sad
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Can we do this for raids too. I need about 20 lives before wipe.
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No. This is the fastest way to kill trials. The only thing that needs to be done is incentivize playing matches on a completed card by rewarding extra tokens for matches played on one.
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1 ReplyWhat's a flawless playlist?
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I agree with all those who say that going flawless isn't for everyone, however I would add that you should not need to be a PvP god to do it either. The PvE equivalent would be like saying only people as good as Esoterickk can complete a raid. What does need to happen is Trials needs to be inviting to average players. They need to be able to go in, earn some loot, maybe get 1-3 wins. How they get loot could be up for discussion... does the token system remain? Do bounties reward gear? Doesn't really matter as long as they can get some loot. The other thing that needs to happen is there needs to be some incentive to go flawless and possibly some incentive to keep you from resetting your card once you do. Flawless should have a chance to drop exclusive cosmetics... ghosts, ships, sparrows, shaders, ornaments (weapon and armor) as well as weapons that can slot "Trials only" mods. The Trials mods would also be a random flawless drop. If the loot system doesn't get fixed and top tier, pro teams continue to stay in the early stages of a card to pummel average players then Trials will probably die before the season is over.
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2 RepliesAnother one who wants an easy way too flawless. Bungie caters to casuals with sbmm in 99 % of the playlists. Get a team , practice in sbmm Elim, improve, play Trials
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8 RepliesTRIALS IS PINNACLE PVP CONTENT. If you can’t do it, don’t play it. That simple.
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This shouldn’t be a thing, the act of going flawless in trials shouldn’t be handed out and made easier for players, it’s an aspirational part of the game - Something Luke Smith said the game is missing, ‘mountains to climb’ was the term I think he used. However, trials is in a bad place right now and I actually think the rewards for going flawless or at least above 3 wins should be improved as well as the rewards for players who may struggle to hit 3 wins. Flawless should allow you to choose the reward from the chest much like how completing a sun dial worked. You should also be rewarded with an ascendant shard as a guarantee. Token rewards from 3-7 wins should also be exponentially increased so that going further in the card and even losing further up, is more rewarding than farming early wins. Adept weapons/armour are a must. To make the mode rewarding for less skilled players I’d propose the 2 weekly bounties dropping gear as well as tokens. One can be a weapon and the other a piece of armour. Tokens should be able to be cashed in at any point without the 3 win requirement and will drop the rank 3 reward for that week if you do not have anything unlocked in your loot pool. These are my suggestions. Players need to want to climb the card further and a path to a guaranteed weapon would make this the most directed farm for players who already have a large Trials loot pool. On top of this, players who may not be able to reach flawless or even 3 wins need to be rewarded and enticed into playing the game mode, getting gear and hopefully getting better and climbing the card eventually. I think Trials is in a bad place because both spectrums of players are currently not happy and as the player base drops, the mode will become harder and harder to turn around. I know with everything going on that Bungie are probably working really hard against the limitations that might be in place from working remotely but this season and arguably the longevity of D2 rests on Trials being a success so this is something that should be changed ASAP if possible.
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3 RepliesThe vast majority of players never see the Lighthouse because they’re just not good enough.
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1 ReplyTrials isn't for the casual players or new players. The only change trials need is to alienate casual players, new and D2 babies. Make them more rewarding and the armor exclusive to the flawless chest
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Get good
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Edited by TJ_Dot: 4/2/2020 1:12:52 AMThe one issue this has is devaluing Flawless itself, something idk why the hell anyone cares about THAT bad, but people do. Could slap on tiers to flawless itself or some crap, but I guess it's supposed to have evolved loot instead. That being said, trying to make this game more competitive is only bound to hurt the game in the long run. With a double-edged sword like Trials, Destiny can easily kill itself trying to combat an issue with it. Especially when it starts shafting the game in favor of it. Want Hardlight Nerfed? Ok, then how do you counter a range nerf or damage bonus nerf without hurting something really good it has going for PvE. Hate people emoting corners, consider it an "ability"? Well, you can be like Lono and propose a cooldown on them, and shaft their practical use, also say goodbye to any flashy ways to chain them, like that one cool video from back in D1 even. Where has this happened before? Icebreaker, not even in the game anymore, unlikely to ever be. D1 special weapons were drained almost entirely of any ammo, people when to this as the only sniper, especially for Trials. Now it takes several minutes to get a full mag. Why would you ever use this in PvE (excluding the few Strike cheeses that people just stopped doing anyway)?
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2 RepliesA flawless playlist doesn't solve the problem, it creates more problems. Let me explain (and I'll provide a better solution as well IMO). In Destiny 1, Crucible (with the exception of Trials) was a very casual playlist. There were some weapons to go after, but for the most part, it was a casual playlist where you did not have to worry about going against sweats. In Destiny 2, they wanted to make the PVP environment more competitive similar to how things were in Halo. In addition to the change to 4v4, they introduced a Competitive mode meant for the sweaty players to get better rewards. Competitive became a sweat's only arena which was disappointing to the hardcore community. Many of them instead wanted to get wins by stacking in Quickplay, resulting in casuals getting stomped which was disappointing to the casual community. It was a lose-lose situation. Trials has started down a similar path, the hardcore players do not see an incentive to constantly go flawless, so they stay in 1-3 win cards which does essentially the same thing. It's a lose-lose situation. The reason I don't like your solution is for the following reasons: 1. A flawless playlist with better rewards creates the same competitive problem that we saw at the start of D2. The flawless playlist would only have sweats, meaning most players would still use the default playlist to stomp casual teams. Either that or they would just stay in 1-3 win cards to find easier teams. 2. The idea of preventing card resetting is bad. If you are a team trying to go flawless, as soon as you get a loss, you reset your card and start over. It's bad to force those teams to finish the card knowing they will not go flawless on the card. Imagine getting 1 loss followed up by 7 wins... A better solution IMO: Instead of having better rewards for a different playlist, have better rewards by progressing further along your Trials card. Trials in its current state is incredibly stingy with its token rewards. My proposed solution is to provide rewards based on the number of wins when you turn in your Trials card. Here is a sample scale: 1 win: 1 token 2 wins: 2 tokens 3 wins: 3 tokens 4 wins: 5 tokens 5 wins: 7 tokens 6 wins: 10 tokens 7 wins: 15 tokens flawless: 25 tokens This would be a much better incentive for players to continue to play beyond 3 wins. Even a 7-2 card would give 15 tokens, which is not bad. I'm hesitant to provide additional rewards for flawless such as Prisms and Shards ONLY because of the large amount of cheaters in PVP. If cheaters did not exist, then that would make sense. Just my thoughts.
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I don’t think there is a fix for average players. Trials simply wasn’t made for them and I think there is a point where players need to realize that. I don’t really think a flawless will change things that much either, cards will still be shut down left and right and then the system would be easily exploited, wait until casual hour on a character for an easier card. Plus carry streams with like them or hate them do get people excited about trials. I think personally the problem lies with the incentives for trials followed by the sandbox just blowing chunks. We don’t have any loot exclusive to the light house and I’m not talking about more powerful loot. Literally an identical summoner with adept in the title and a different skin on it or something would be worth it or maybe the ttk version where we had 4 rolls on each of the 4 primaries and last resort on it. Armour could get ornaments or something. Something flashy that shows yeah you did that. As it stands we have.... nothing. Then the sandbox..... LOOOOL man I actually don’t know if there’s been a less enjoyable sandbox. So much cheese, server issues, cheating, bad skill gap like the first flawless was some godly pc players beaten by controller players, a game with a big skill gap just doesn’t allow that. Flinch less snipers, constant shotgun aping and hitscan fusions I feel like they’ve not been a big hit with the community. Supers tho, man who actually enjoys fighting a super anymore? They’re a almost all roaming supers now so we have no more one and dones, even out super shut down super does a piss poor job of it and without a nuts -blam!-ing skill shot with a high impact sniper, how often are you really killing that invis nightstalker using dashes to dodge everything? Yeah just never felt like it was fun to play against every game and now we have an exotic that enables the -blam!- out of deflecting arc staff so yay. Just my thoughts on why trials was a flop
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I’d play trials if they had a playlist for teams/players that have already gone flawless. Absolutely.
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If you want more players... Why make it harder? Are you talking about a special Separate playlist with like double or triple the loot or something? Because frankly, ONE: It was hard to tell if you were talking about that. And TWO: Why would you want to split an already weak playerbase if that is the case? If you want More players to play in Trials then that isn't the answer. The answer is two-fold actually. ONE: You want to give players with NO Chance in going flawless or even winning a few matches a shot at actual decent loot. And the only way I can think of is to give one or two bounties that reward just Actually Playing in Trials. Even if it is just one gun. Or one piece of armor. At least casuals and low skilled players will get something and feel like their time is respected. Maybe make tokens permanent and usable at any time. TWO: You also still have to respect the flawless people. Give them something unique like Adept weapons (like in Destiny 1), armor with higher stats, more end game materials. That way flawless people are still getting a better reward for what they have achieved. Also Bungie will have to work on the blasted cheaters. Because they can be rough to run into.
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They should just instead have a max flawless hit on the weekend. 4 at the max. 3 for each character, 1 for a carry. If you do an all flawless lobby or tier- you'll kill that part of the base from the top down. If we have what we got now we kill the game mode from the bottom up like it is rn. I think at this point they should 1) increase token rewards on bounties and matches 2) cap the number of flawless runs a week. 3) have a little more sbmm. That should make it fair and removes incentives for paid carry people or token farmers. The lighthouse is special- it should be treated that way.
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Edited by A KOOL POP TART: 4/1/2020 9:52:34 PMD1 trials was similar, only a large handful of people played it religiously and enjoyed it for what it was. One problem now is that D2 doesn't have the level of community support that the first game had and hasn't been well received lately, so more people are going off to find new games. If D2 is going to survive, it needs to have better, top tier content like an actual story mode with a titanfall 2 quality story (Stupid, simple, fun) and some Fun world activities and quests. Just making another playlist isn't going to solve anything and will likely just make things worse. I see a lot of post saying "the problem with destiny 2 is __" and don't seem to consider that the problem with destiny 2, is destiny 2 itself.
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2 RepliesThe problem is that the people that noone wants to play against that are ruining the experience for the lesser skilled, ie the streamers and most of the top 1% that just keep playing non stop even after they have 3 flawless. They need to call it quits after all characters have been flawless but they don't, they just keep going. Maybe if on Monday they open a no flawless this week playlist or something would be cool. No idea how they could fix it.
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Edited by FataLVisioN_Oo: 4/1/2020 6:39:22 PMIt seems there is already SBMM in trials on top of card based matchmaking. On this account I typically play high elo teams.. i switched to my alt to help a buddy go flawless that struggles... games 1-7 we never played a high elo team and the average kd of the opposing team was .7-1.1 kd. We don't need a flawless playlist. All people will do is wait until Monday night to go play trials due to all the "good" players being taken out of the play list. What we need is daily repeatable bounties that are kinda grindy for armor and weapons for the lowest tier players and load the back end of cards with extra tokens/prisms/shards/repeatable loot you can grab to keep people from farming games 1-3 for tokens. Personally I'd just get rid of tokens but if tokens are going to be the system used then they need to remove the win requirement for turning them in and award more tokens for losses.. 3 per loss 5 per win on the low end then further down the card 5 per loss 10-15 per win. The bounties also need to give more tokens then 2-5. At the moment there is zero reason to play an entire card out when it's faster to grind tokens by just playing the first match and resetting. This is a loot driven game. 5 minute matches are more lucrative then 15 minute matches. Tbh there also isn't really any reason to go flawless. A piece of armor and an ascendant shard? In the time it takes to go flawless you could farm up 6 or 7 ascendant shards by just running nightfalls. Locking a card until it's finished would just create problems for people who are legitimately trying to go flawless. Say they lose their mercy game 3.. it would be a waste of time to play out that entire card and lose on game 5 then have to waste more time getting to game 7 or losing 2 more times just so they can get a new card. That's like an hour plus or so down the drain for absolutely no reason.
