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originally posted in: Dear High kd players...
1/4/2020 12:07:28 AM
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If A is better than B in something, A's opinion is more valuable High tier players have better understanding of the crucible and they are more dedicated to it, what they say should be precious
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  • With that logic a professional athlete should never listen to a coach that has never played professionally. Someone could have an excellent grasp of the game and not have the physical attributes required to be successful in pvp i.e reflexes, eyesight, spatial awareness etc.

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  • [quote]If A is better than B in something, A's opinion is more valuable High tier players have better understanding of the crucible and they are more dedicated to it, what they say should be precious[/quote] Not always the case but it usually is. The only case I see against it is class balance but that’s because everyone prefers their main.

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  • By the same logic streamers' opinion about PvE must be much more valuable than the average player. I guess you'll agree to that.

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  • This would only be true if k/d reflected actual player skill, and not, you know, lag switchers, drophackers, and DDoSers. ;P But yes, in an ideal Destiny 2 which had proper team balancing, proper matchmaking, didn't match solo rando potatoberries pitted against 6-stacks running the meta, or indeed dedicated servers, kill/death ratio would actually be some measure of skill. People confuse k/d with skill, even though the former does not prove the latter, least of all in a game that's so ripe for network manipulation and stat-farming.

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  • Ok, but most of them know the game anyway About kd players, you have no doubt about their lack of skill

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  • In some respects maybe, but not necessarily about every issue in Destiny. You want opinions on builds and how to play, then sure listen to the best players. The trouble is that a lot of them who post here have an agenda that isn't necessarily good for the game. High K/D players that post complaint posts here want changes that make it easier for them to stomp. Think about all the NF/LH shouldn't be nerfed arguments back in the day, Erentil should be nerfed, anything that lets a lower skilled player kill me should be nerfed, SBMM is bad, etc. Low K/D players want to enjoy the game and get better. Making the game easier for the top few % and harder for the rest is just silly. That will just reduce the PVP population even further. The people at the top don't need to be saved from lower skilled players with Erentil or whatever.

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  • Agreed. I'm sure I'd have an amazing kill/death ratio too if I went around with my friends in a 6-stack, 4-stack etc. and/or set my VPN to a corner of the globe with virtually no players so I could get matched with my friends for easy 100+ match win streaks... but that would not be indicative of my skill. Similarly, I'm sure I'd have an amazing kill/death ratio if I built a hardware lag switch or used Net Limiter 4 to lag out my opponents whenever I saw a red dot on my radar... but it also would not be indicative of my skill level in anything except network manipulation skill. ;P I play solo in large part because I want to know how well I do on my own, and to improve my skills against similarly-skilled players, and no matter if I hate a game type like Control, I will _always_ play objective and at least try to win the match objectives, rather than just going for kills. But I'd prefer to just go for kills, which is why I would prefer to just play Clash all the time, but Bungie seem to not want to make Clash a base, default game type for some inexplicable reason, even though that is the default on just about any other PvP FPS. :P

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  • [quote]If A is better than B in something, A's opinion is more valuable High tier players have better understanding of the crucible and they are more dedicated to it, what they say should be precious[/quote] I have a nephew that is a pvp god (doesn't play Destiny though). He isn't dedicated and really doesn't play a ton. He's just good at games in general; some people are like this. There's always gonna be that counter argument to the counter argument.

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  • And i have friends who know they are shit at pvp and they don't even try to claim anything about pvp I am glad i have smart friends

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  • [quote]And i have friends who know they are shit at pvp and they don't even try to claim anything about pvp I am glad i have smart friends[/quote] The point is definitely way over your head.

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  • Nope, before talking about something you need to know it If your nephew played destiny he wouldn't claim anything anyway because he isn't dedicated as you said In general, better players play more than bad players

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  • Precious is definitely the wrong word here. Valued would be fine. But why wouldn't any players opinion be valued regardless of KDR. KDR is the worst measure you could possibly use for value of opinion. KDR are for people who just want an over inflated ego so they can impress their 'mates'. Its pathetic. My KDR isn't particularly good or high, so my opinion is invalid and doesn't matter? Totally disagree.

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  • Nah. It has nothing to with ego. If a person is better at the game the know about it more and would be good for it.

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  • Elderly people tend to screw things up more than middle aged. I can sink hours into something, and have an average score, and still have a more valid opinion than the "good" person with less. For example, where I work. I have been here for 15 years, basic degree. Some new guy with a masters in biology comes in thinking he knows everything. The dumbass gets bit because he doesn't know our animals. This point your reasoning of "higher skill/knowledge trumps time invested" excuse goes out the window. The high KD's are usually "I'm better at this than you, so you can't talk" people. Ie, elitist. Elitists are the ones who have no valid opinions. As many historical wars have shown, the minority vs the tyrants usually end poorly for the latter.

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  • This argument would work if not for the fact that the best PvP players are also usually the people who have played PvP the most (I'm talking about Destiny specifically here.) Yes, someone who is just generally good at PvP in games, but is playing Destiny for the first time, has an opinion that arguably has less merit than the opinion of an average PvP player who has sunk hundreds of hours into Destiny's PvP specifically. But, again, most of Destiny's top PvP players have both skill [i]and[/i] experience. I can almost guarantee most of them were average players once too. They became good because they put in the time to improve.

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  • Um pretty sure history shows the opposite minority groups are always very vulnerable without mainstream support

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  • [quote]Elderly people tend to screw things up more than middle aged. I can sink hours into something, and have an average score, and still have a more valid opinion than the "good" person with less. For example, where I work. I have been here for 15 years, basic degree. Some new guy with a masters in biology comes in thinking he knows everything. The dumbass gets bit because he doesn't know our animals. [/quote] I used to work in a lab where some of our seasoned mid-leveled employees had to supervise phd candidates and post-docs. It was fun to watch at times.

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  • ‘Precious’ 😂😂😂 soundin like Sméagol I bet.

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  • LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO

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  • Oh right, I forgot! That’s why only the rich are allowed to have opinions on the economy, and only those involved with politics are allowed to voice political opinions![spoiler]That is the absolute worst take on anything I’ve ever seen[/spoiler]

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  • Edited by idioTeo: 1/4/2020 12:31:14 AM
    That's why when you need a surgery you ask for a 1 year experienced doctor and not for a 30 years experienced one That's why when you need help on work you'll ask to your good colleague and not the bad one Tomorrow i'll go to CERN and claim my opinion should matter more than the engineers there then

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  • [quote]That's why when you need a surgery you ask for a 1 year experienced doctor and not for a 30 years experienced one[/quote] Everyone starts out with >1 year of experience. That’s… how years work… sure I might prefer having someone with more experience, but it doesn’t really matter to me. If in that one year the doctor performed the same surgery with a 100% success rate, I have no reason to assume that my surgery will not also be successful. [quote]That's why when you need help on work you'll ask to your good colleague and not the bad one[/quote] If my “bad” colleague had trouble dealing with that specific issue or question, I might go to them to see where they went wrong, figure out how I might do things differently. Failure is an excellent tool for future success. [quote]Tomorrow i'll go to CERN and claim my opinion should matter more than the engineers there then[/quote] As a consumer, your opinion on design can and in some situations should be taken into consideration. Not in this situation since the rude description you give would probably have you thrown out of the building, but engineers should be open to public opinion when designing something for public use. Obviously your opinion does not matter “more” since you have no actual power there. If you play Destiny, regardless of if you are good or bad at PvP, you would be treated the same way. Thrown out of the building because regardless of your skill in the Crucible, you don’t work for Bungie, and have no power over the way Destiny functions.

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  • But everybody has to start somewhere? Right. That 30 years of experience wasn't paid for via the AppStore. This surgeon started at zero years experience.

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  • Edited by idioTeo: 1/4/2020 7:34:23 AM
    Ofc, but more experience is more valuable Usually the best players have more time invested than the bad ones And honestly if someone is bad after a long time, his/her understanding of the game isn't good

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  • You had me up till "precious".

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