Class balance feels pretty broken at the moment. While the new subclasses have given the scope of the game an interesting makeover, it's also shown some glaring issues with balance. This is true in both PvE and PvP sides of the house. Here's a breakdown of the new supers with more of a PvP focus:
[b][u]Hunter[/u]
Blade Barrage:
TL;DR: Neutral game is terrible, Super cast time needs to be longer.[/b]
It's a subclass entirely devoted to knives. Therefore, using Marksman's Dodge basically breaks the functionality of the subclass. Very niche and not exactly practical for PvP. Would say that the neutral game is fairly weak and needs to be brought up. In contrast, the Super is strong. Like STRONG. PvE single target damage is great (and should be), but the cast time is instant and gives 0 chance for counterplay in PvP. Unless you have a wall to duck behind, you're instantly dead. Hell, you might be dead even if you DO manage to get behind the wall.
[b]Spectral Blades:
TL;DR: Neutral game is dumb; Melee Debuff is too complicated; Super tracking sucks on ground.[/b]
More knives! Sorry. "Blades." Here's another super niche playstyle. Subclass is only useful in any way if you take the time to crouch and get headshots. Super dumb. Add to that the melee debuff that's you have to jump through flaming hoops to activate. It's honestly faster to just switch characters and load back in with your Titan. Melee usage shouldn't be fully dependent on activating another perk in the subclass. I know Hunters have the best jumps, but what's with all the hoops? Lastly, the Super tracking is abysmal on the ground. Lunge distance is much to short.
[b]Whirlwind Guard:
TL;DR: Hands down the most functional new Hunter Subclass. Good neutral game interplays with newly functional super.[/b]
This one's the sleeper, underdog subclass you thought wouldn't be any good, but works great. The slide melee is weird, but definitely strong and confusing as hell to get hit by in PvP. Different subclass traits work well together without making it too niche and offering a variety of playstyles. The guard feature works well, but still requires some testing to determine what it will block and what it won't. Even still, it retains all the good things about the other Arcstrider subclasses.
[b][u]Warlock[/u]
Nova Warp:
TL;DR: Probably more broken than original D1 Sunbreaker. Good Neutral game with OP Super.[/b]
Probably the only thing more annoying than aggressively teleporting Minotaurs is aggressively teleporting Guardians. Bungie has harnessed the power of lag and made the most frustrating super yet. This one starts off with a ridiculously strong neutral game and just keeps going up from there. Handheld Supernova is a one shot in PvP. Yeah, it consumes your grenade, but you also get health back and reduced ability cooldowns when you kill someone with abilities. Oh yeah. And the melee has extra range and makes explosions. So with all that, the super would probably be pretty meh, right? Nope. Combine the frustrating teleporting with huge OHK AOE attacks AND instant health regen on kills. It's easily the strongest subclass out of all the new ones and arguably the most powerful for PvP purposes compared to everything else in the game. Even still, I won't hold my breath on Bungie balancing this. There's a pretty obvious trend of buffing Warlocks up to or even past the line while simultaneously pulling everyone else back.
[b]Chaos Reach:
TL;DR: Insane Burst damage tempered by deactivation bug. IMO, shouldn't be changed.[/b]
Chaos Reach is a prime example of the lack of counterplay against supers in PvP. It has a slightly longer activation than Blade Barrage, but essentially has the same TTK. The primary issue here is the deactivation mechanic that's currently bugged. There's already no real counter to an activated Chaos Reach. It can find you across the map and there's not much you can do. Once that bug is resolved, a Warlock could arguably burst down a couple people, then deactivate the super and have half the energy left. With a good player, that would probably bring the average number of supers per game from 2 up to 3 to 4, possibly even 5. The rest of the subclass is okay, but is honestly more geared toward PvE than it is to PvP where the only real neutral game benefit is a ranged melee.
[b]Well of Radiance:
TL;DR: Only really useful when running with a coordinated team. Entirely devoted to support.[/b]
It's the new Titan Bubble. Facing down a team in a Well can be very frustrating and is most effectively countered by using another super or something with high burst damage. Unbeknownst to some, the sword can be shot to kill the Well. This isn't really super effective as you're generally more busy dealing with the people inside of it shooting at you. Besides the Super, the entire subclass is devoted to support (with the possible exception of the melee attack, which is still kind of a support debuff. It's great for team based PvE activities and for coordinated PvP players. But you solo guys will want to stay away from this one. It's not doing you any favors.
[b][u]Titan[/u]
Burning Maul:
TL;DR: Very strong Neutral game; Super is tanky, but very avoidable.[/b]
I have a love hate relationship with this one. As in, it's a great one to run, but annoying as hell to play against. The whole thing depends on you using those hammer throws effectively. Doing so will give you a near constant melee charge, heal you on hammer pick up and even make your ability TTK faster. Once you get around to popping the Super, you're a tank. Damage reduction on this one is high and it cleans up nicely for the people dumb enough to stay in close range. It beats all but the most top notch melee supers. Problem is that it's got no air game and is slow enough that the smart people you really wanted to kill are long gone.
[b]Thundercrash:
TL;DR: The whole subclass plays into the super. Neutral game isn't impressive. Super AOE is a bit ridiculous.[/b]
I'm always confused when playing this one. It's usually because I'm trying to figure out how that Fist of Havoc didn't kill be before I realize it was just a melee attack. Basically, this attack is the most nominal thing about the subclass. So I guess Bungie just decided to make it faster to get past the neutral game right to the super by making melee hits increase super charge. Idk. Either way, there's a bit too much AOE when it comes to the Super. Not only is the whole super a steerable missile, but the blast radius takes care of those people you aren't good enough to hit without some help. It basically suffers from the same "how the hell did that kill me?" effect that the initial hit of the D2 Fist of Havoc has so often.
[b]Banner Shield:
TL;DR: Neutral game is... weird. Super is great for team support and DPS situations.[/b]
Not much to say here. The Void Detonator thing is a bit weird and I'm not sure I like it. Probably need to play around with it more. The Super is basically the same shtick as the Arcstrider's new Whirlwind Guard. Except that it has a larger area of effect. And that it buffs ally damage. Remind me, why is it that every does what Hunters do, just better? PvP applications are limited here, but the super retains most of the old Sentinel functionality.
So that's it. Final ruling on the new subclasses as a whole:
Hunters: C-
Titans: B+
Warlocks: S
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Blade Barrage is useless because it only works 50% of the time. Most of the time it just whiffs... Hit detection on the new void super is a joke. New Arcstrider is trash because its a melee super and outclassed by any other roaming super / shutdown. on PC Hunter is borderline unplayable because the most agile and fast class is actually the slowest in the game now (Titan skating, Warlock boost jumping) with no useful class ability and no exotics to synergize in pvp.
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Somebody doesn’t play a Warlock 😂
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7 RepliesHunters: I agree Warlocks: Yeah chaos reach big fix would make it amazing; I agree Titans: Burning maul and banner shield I agree with. Leave thundercrash alone, it’s AOE blast cant hold a candle to nova warp, which makes zero sense, which means thunder crash needs a buff or nova needs a nerf. I vote nova nerf. They already have infinite supernovas.
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Edited by Rwarrior: 10/5/2018 5:34:53 PMTo me the biggest problem with chaos reach is that you can barely see when casting. Hey I see a guy I want to super *screen becomes brighter than the surface of the sun* OH! I guess I killed him must have missed that part sweet!
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Thousand cuts terrible neutral game? *throws tripmines, knives and dodges indefinitely
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3 RepliesAll classes are A+ [spoiler]that is if you have skill[/spoiler]
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Warlock S tier? Wut?
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I dont even care about class balance. Weapon balance is more of an issue for me.
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Warlocks need buffs in crucible. They are terrible right now and hunters and titans dwarf them. I have all three characters and the warlock is my least favourite. I was a D1 void main warlock and sad to see (even the new nova warp) isn’t that great. Hunters get a great new super that’s harder to kill than a nova bomb warlock and had faster , better tracking than both nova bomb skill trees. Titans can run around and charge into people with one hit kill moves & hunters can throw knives. Meanwhile only one warlock skill tree enjoys a one hit melee that needs charging and is very static. You can sprint at opponents while using it.
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Blade barrage has same cast time as nova bomb or FoH. If those are fine...blade barrage is fine.
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2 RepliesEdited by Forest: 10/4/2018 8:28:45 PMAnd lost any and all points trying to make when you said blade barrage sucks. Cause according to a lot of other players blade barrage is the best PvE and PvP super in the game right. And even lost more points when you said whirlwind guard is a "underdog" and players though it suck. When Bungie announced new supers and show cased Whirlwind guard everybody and their mother knew it was gonna be OP and they where right. It is Titans Sentinel Shield but actually good since it can reflect OTHER PLAYER SUPERS back at the player and kill them. Seriously it is more stupid than Way of the Wind and being able to dodge supers and if it can reflect nova bombs and golden gun shots imagine what it can do against PvE bosses. So want a correct grading system it be Hunters S+ Titans B+ Warlocks B+ This is just another Hunter whine thread trying to convince every one that Hunters are ssoo under powered.
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3 RepliesAnother PVP tryhard, whining about Hunters being underpowered, in an effort to break the game.
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8 RepliesI dont get why they are talking about nerfing exotics for the classes. Ursa for titans and the shards for hunters is what Im talking about here. They actually require skill to use correctly and it rewards you for using them properly in pvp. Plus it's not the players fault if your team triple stacks a corner or shoots their shield. There are multiple counters against these exotics and it just seems weird that people are screaming for nerfs on these when warlocks now have a panic super they can pop and cancel and a warp blast aoe super, and I'm not saying nerf those either. It's actually pretty balanced if you look at everything. Just because a player knows how to synergize and utilize everything in their loadout doesn't mean that the game is unfair or broken. The only one super that kinda makes me scratch my head from time to time is way of the wraith. I get that it's not blade dancer but there has been a few times where I've run up directly behind a guy and hit him with spectral blades only for it to somehow completely miss even though I was literally a foot away from the player.
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To be honest looks like you reviewed this after playing with them for 5 minutes and only accounted pvp
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17 RepliesWhy don't we ask ourselves why a game designed to be a hero shooter needs such tight class balancing? oh yea.. they shoehorned in a gimmicky PVP sack of garbage. NOW everyone has to be able to "play nice" when they're in the play-pen with all the other mental midgets who scream and cry about balance when Bungie tries to fix something and it breaks their perfect builds. Seriously, the only people who bitch are the people whos exploits got ruined. This is why you don't listen to your fans about how to build your game. They don't want a game that works, they want a game that's broken for them. They're a bunch of greedy shit-heads whos only interests are self-serving. The people you should be building this game for are the ones who're trying harder to better themselves, not the ones screaming about balance in your forums whos only interest is to ruin the game for everyone else. I don't expect a lot of upvotes on this post, but, go ahead and downvote me, prove that you're part of the problem, you'll only make my point more poignant
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Its not the supers its the exotics tbh.
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I don’t agree with the blade barrage section. It’s neutral game is definitely good. Add shards of galanor and you won’t need a neutral game at all. and some of the nova warp stuff is kinda true coming from a warlock but it’s nice to have a super with massive outplay potential