Well, if Bungie didn't put trials in this game and kept PvP as it was intended to be, maybe there wouldn't have been so many unnecessary nerfs in D1 that led to the changes in D2 that it took Bungie a year just too put things somewhat back to the way it was with the weapon slots. This is on Bungie and only Bungie, not the player base in spite of what anyone says and that is a fact. PvP was intended to be a casual event and it's far from that and never will become that.

Shotgun rushing is not really skill based either tbh.. No more than lane shooting. Let's see. Make guardian run, slide, pull right trigger. As compared to strafe lane shooting, make guardian move right and left will simultaneously pulling right trigger. Shotgun rushing is not some high skilled action. Plus it killed off the smg/sidearm cqc meta that we used to have which actually was higher skill than shotgun to the face.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a faster paced game, everyone would have been happy if only the ttk changes went live especially since ttk is the real reason for either a fast or slow paced game. Shotguns everywhere does not improve the fun or pace of the game, it only adds frustration and toxic players hating on each other for using low skill weapons. The slots may have somewhat improved pve but pvp is literally mayhem 24/7

The problem is that it is going to force people who dont like to use shotguns in crucible to use them. It's like going up against a team that uses nothing but graviton Lance's or vigilance wing in a mostly outside map. Either you join them in that use or you mostly die. I shouldn't have to feel like I dont have a chance against a weapon if I dont match the type of weapons my opponents are using

The reason people are complaining is because unlike D1 there aren't reliable primaries to counter shotguns.. there also aren't abilities such as ohk stickies to keep them at bay for example. At the moment the crucible is an unskilled player's dream. They literally went from getting a few kills a game or none at all due to their lack of ability with primary gun skill to being able to run up and auto delete someone or even a few people before dying..... how is that skill? I personally don't feel very skillful auto deleting people, but I did when I would jump into an enemy spawn with my primary and wipe the team using vertical space/ map knowledge/ cover/ gun skill to my advantage......... all I do now is aim in the general direction of someone and hit R2 and they are gone.... it's extremely boring.

100% disagree. The completley ruined the once skill based PvP. I loved shotguns, fusion rifles, snipers being power weapons. It forced players to become more skilled at every aspect of PvP except slide shotgunning or hiding with a fusion rifle. They took all the skill out of PvP and returned it to the rage enducing old PvP. It takes 0 skill to wall up to someone with a shotgun or fusion rifle.

For you. For me it has made me consider uninstalling. Sbmm is back and all my matches have one or two laggy players. I can no longer be aggressive the way I could with HC/SMG and melees. Several games for streamers are going to time because people are playing way more passive, so it actually slowed the game down, and people are being less aggressive than before. Kind of funny considering the ttk was lowered. The slot system sometimes is very limiting for me, as I cannot run a non exotic snipe or shotty heavy. SMGs require more skill than shotgun aping, but equipping a shotty messes up my ability to fully cover the range I want to play in. Almost all energy handcannons were pretty meh before the changes, and they put the best snipers in the kinetic slot. The kinetic slot is overcrowded with the best primaries and specials now. Special ammo is far too prevalent for shotguns and grenade launchers, and is much easier to pick up when running those weapons vs snipers. Snipers still have an insane amount of flinch. These problems lead to sniper being a niche choice for most maps. Overall, the crucible is in an awful state right now. It just feels mayhem mode all the time. Definitely feels like the worst parts of D1, and none of the good.

I 100% agree bro. People don't seem to understand that what bungie did was create a skills gap within the game, where for the last year there really wasn't one at all. Yes, shitty players can kill you with a 1hk shotty at any time. But these players will always be at the bottom of the team score with 10 kills and at best a 1.0, just as it was in d1. You don't like being killed by campers with shottys? Start leaning movement, especially with height, that is why they increased in air accuracy. Want to kill a camper with a shotty? Jump over him, he most likely is terrible has a sensitivity of like 2 or 3 and will never be able to look up in time to even come close to kill you. You know why they increased precision damage and reduced body? That is the skill gap! You can easily almost every time kill an aping guardian with a shotgun with a hand cannon, side arm or smg. They all have ttks of less than 1 seconds, typically at 0.8 seconds, you just have to be skilled and hit all crits. It's easy, map awareness, radar awareness, movement, precise shots. Long gone is the time of camping with a g lance and hard scoping, and as soon as you're shot at you run and get away because the ttk allows it. That was and will never be enjoyable, skilled or difficult to achieve. Stop being upset because bungie is forcing you to actually play well to do well. As I said, there will always be campers with shotguns willing to trade on every kill, just as there was always some pleb hiding in the back of the map getting kills with g lance whenever someone ran by, you cannot change these ppls play styles, however you can adapt and change yours, and the faster you do this, the sooner you realize how well you can actually do in the crucible! Finally, we are between year 1 and year 2, wait until random rolls come out, wait until you can get a god roll hand cannon, or smg....currently we are playing with a new system with outdated weapons

Yup, D1 Vets are destroying them D2 babies! xD

Best PVP update period. This revived D2 from the grave for me.