Guardians,
Recently, our conversation as a community has included a spirited debate about the role of the Hand Cannon in Destiny. We had that same chat in our own house. Here is a statement that our Sandbox Design Team created together. Those are the developers who work on the overall gameplay in Destiny. These are their words.
[quote]Hello Destiny community!
Due to a recent resurgence in feedback about “Ghost Bullets” we wanted to take a minute to explain how and why the weapons in Destiny behave the way that they do…
“Ghost Bullets” is a community-coined term that is being used to describe the frustration of missing the intended target due to weapon stats. The bullets aren’t disappearing, they just aren’t hitting the bullseye. Internally, we would call this specific aspect of a weapon “Accuracy,” which is one of the values embedded in the Range Stat of every Destiny weapon.
When looking at Destiny weapon archetypes, we wanted players to be able to assume a weapon’s traits through visuals and an intuitive understanding of how weapons work. Players can make the assumption that barrel length, and stability (stock) will affect the accuracy of a weapon class. These types of distinctive behaviors make for fun and interesting choices within the action simulation.
In short, Hand Cannons, with a relatively short barrel and no stock, are not intended to be long range precision weapons like a Scout Rifle or a Sniper Rifle. Instead they are big, heavy, [u]pistols[/u] that pack a large punch. If you can control the kick, and close on your targets during combat, you will likely (as our friend Variks says) “Kill them dead.”
We want to very sincerely say that this communique is not meant to be argumentative or belittle any of the consistent feedback we’ve received on the subject. Regardless of how “correctly” the game systems are working, the core message is that shooting a Hand Cannon during high skill gameplay can feel inconsistent and/or frustrating for people. [b]We hear you, and we are always looking to improve on that experience.[/b]
While it’s unlikely that we would completely remove Accuracy as a concept from Destiny weapons, we will investigate alternative options to balance Hand Cannons vs. other weapon archetypes. Destiny is a game that will evolve as players push, pull, and build the world.
You are wonderful people, the best community, and passionate about this game in a way that pushes us to always be our best. Thank you for playing, and thank you for reading.[/quote]
To reiterate that the game makers just said: These conversations are never finished. Keep telling us what you think about the gunplay and the balance in Destiny, and us community guys continue to add your voice to their discussion about our creative process.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to the #Destiny forum. See [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/140391030/0/0]Cozmo's thread[/url] for more information about the #Destiny tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic, for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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#Destiny
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Edited by sk_8_erboy: 9/27/2016 8:00:25 AMAll I'm saying is it's a little bit upsetting when you're face to face with a person get that headshot final kill and next thing you know you're standing there with your junk in your hand getting wrecked because there was no shot... Edit: all I use is hand cannons and I'm not a terrible shot just sometimes I think "rangefinder" only works on shottys, and lacks the range when the person is "killing me dead" a foot away from me.
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Edited by the_deadbeat_jew: 9/27/2016 7:03:16 AMYou broke the game you stupid -blam!-s, I only play for crucible and everyone is using a broken shotgun and tonight less than half the bullets from my eyasluna count fix it you -blam!-ing mongoloids
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Theres no point in hand cannons if you have to be close range because all people run is shotguns and they kill just as far but in one shot
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11 RepliesI am sorry, but my Smith and Wesson 629 .44 mag is very accurate. I can not say the same for my colt .45 1911. In Destiny the hand cannons are based on my .44 mag. They should be accurate. It is not a spray n pray gun.
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Yo if you fix hc range we can use some of those other sick perks =/ pluss no land and scouts are the only weapons that kinda mimic that real life performance your alluding too
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So that being said I shouldn't be sniped by a shotgun... am I missing something lol [spoiler]I'm joking. Bungie logic [/spoiler]
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I don't mind the accuracy dropping off at long range. I would like hand cannons to fire a little bit faster though. It would bring them up to the effectiveness of autos in close range. I can't count the number of times I get my first 2 shots off only to die before being able to get the kill shot because I have to wait for the gun to re center
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2 RepliesXx Forsaken Alliance xX Hello fellow guardians. The Alliance is starting to recruit for the PlayStation 4 platform and is opening its rosters for new members! Some things to know about us is most of the members currently involved with the clan have been around since year one and the core administration has been friends since launch. We've raided through Vault of Glass, Crota's End, and of course putting our foot in the door for all of the Taken King. As of now we are mostly focused on PvE with the raids being hot right now and some of the best gear being rewarded inside. We do run PvP as well as the Trials of Osiris with some select members that have more experience in the PvP aspect of the game. Even though I am considered the main leader of the clan, I consider my members on equal ground with me. Everyone has a say on what's going on or ideas for the clans direction. We all try to help each other as much as we can and to get our members the gear they need to excel in the game and have fun along the way. We are looking for mature players that have moderate skill and can handle their own in the game. We are not looking for squeaking kids or anyone trying to bring drama into the clan. Rise of Iron expansion is required and a headset(mic) is also required for joining the clan. If you are looking for a place to chill and do some raids and PvP on the side, look no further! Add me prymetyme25
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It's hard to make this argument to your community when things like, getting shot in the head after you pass behind a wall by a scout rifle kills you versus, 3 direct body shots from a hand cannon (with the persons entire body in the range of the crosshairs) results in only 1-2 shots connecting. There have been times where I have gotten 2 head shots and dropped my gun down for the final body shot and completely missed for no reason. We don't call them ghost bullets for nothing, we literally pull the trigger and no bullet appears. How does the accuracy stat work? Does it drop a bit every time you pull the trigger to simulate reduced accuracy for repeated fire? If so then perhaps if the gun is shot enough the accuracy drops to 0 at which point when the trigger is pulled again the gun produces a ghost bullet because the system thinks "oh your accuracy is 0 which means any shots going forward are a miss, until that stat regenerates."
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7 RepliesI've made my point about how terrible and nonsense this explanation is, but would like to point out that Deej is the COMMUNITY MANAGER. People who keep yelling or bashing him need to understand that he doesn't control the game, but merely relays what the developers are saying. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. If you're going to bash someone, bash the developers, not the messenger.
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The problem isn't the fact that hand cannons have this attribute. It's that every other primary is more consistent compared to them at no matter the range. Which makes them obselete.
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The vender issued palindrome should be the median standard for handcannons.
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4 RepliesIt's funny how when people actually ask for a buff, it would get the backlash it's getting in this thread. Most of it is largely from players who don't even use hand cannons and are just scared of the concept of any sort of buff to a weapon they don't use.
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Edited by GhostKingChan: 9/26/2016 3:37:58 PMIt's either gank range, or long range in this game anymore. Crucible is a joke, get shotgunned and spawn on the other side of the map to be snipped or scout rifled, to then spawn back on the other side to be shotgunned again... Handcannons made it possible to fend of people before they got close enough to gank you, or peck at someone at range till you could close the gap. Now i can't reliably hit someone closing in to shotgun because this bloom crap...
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Love how everyone is still going off in this thread. How can you still justify these changes bungie. Give me back my handCANNONS. Right now they're pee shooters
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2 RepliesWhy is it that every weapon tuning is almost entirely based on PvP experiences? I used to LOVE running hand cannons in PvE. They did enough damage to kill enemies quickly, but still had enough range that the enemies couldn't quite use their melee attacks. Ever since TTK came out, hand cannons are worthless in PvE! They still do the same damage, but they miss about 1 in 3 shots. Basically reducing overall damage about 33%. 33% damage reduction is HUGE! That means where I could before run into a room and kill 10 enemies and remain at a sliver of health. Now, I get through 6-8 of those same enemies and die or retreat. Yet, at the same time, you nerf the nightfall to encourage this playstyle of running around shredding enemies... Please stop focusing so much on PvP! It's the raids/new story missions that are bringing in new people and bringing back former players... PvP has it's place, but shouldn't be the largest deciding factor for our weapons! Sorry for the rant, but I miss using hand cannons... TL;DR: PvP nerfs made hand cannons useless in PvE and I hate it...
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5 RepliesEdited by JHarv: 9/26/2016 1:44:29 AMEvery primary weapon should have a 0.6-0.8s ttk This means that after being hit, you have a half a second to react so you don't get hit again. Or if you react quick enough, the opponent will miss the next headshot. If primaries have above a 1s ttk, they are prone to being shotgun charged and having their shots tanked. Which is what you see right now. A guardian can cover a lot of ground in 1 second and blast you for a 1 hit kill. Currently, hand cannons do as long as you don't hit the rng accuracy range. Auto rifles cannot do this, especially at range or vs a moving target. Scout rifles sort of can, but you need headshots. Body shots do piss all. Pulse rifles can, but only with headshots and hacksaw /gom That said, Auto rifles need a massive buff. Scout rifles need a slight buff. Pulse rifles need a slight buff. And hand cannons need more damage fall off at range. They still snipe, just miss the occasional bullet. I guarantee that if primaries were better, you'd see less shotgun complaints. Right now, the game is dominated by shotguns for this reason.
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I like hand cannons just as much as the next dude but they don't need buffs. It was a bad call making them primaries in the first place. If they get pushed too far then they end up being able to cover what pulses and autos should be able to do. If you push autos and pulses too far then hand cannons end up useless. Even after the hand cannon "adjustments" pulses and autos still aren't as good as they should be in crucible and heaven help you with these in pve. If one class of weapons needs to take a hit for the greater health of the game then so be it. Bungie needs to stand their ground with what they've done.
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1 ReplyBungie, leave your handcannons alone. Dont listen to people and remove bloom. If anhand cannon can hot at any range they WILL be used over every other weapon type in the crucible.
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The fact that you, Bungie for ROI had to put a god-roll handcannon (The Palindrome) as a vendor purchasable item that when you shoot it, actually hits where you aim, completely destroys everything you say here. So again Deej, you are an a-hole and you are wrong.
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Stability should deal accuracy, range should deal with damage drop off and the flinch the gun inflicts. The real problem with handcannons though is that they need to be accurate in their effective range because of the slow rate of fire. If you miss one shot your probably gonna die.
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[b][/b][quote][ Pd/quote][u].[/u][i][/i]
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5 RepliesSimple solution: introduce weapon sway.
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1 Replyi have yet to experience ghost bullets with my newly acquired ill will. i wouldn't say i have a god roll, but damn it sure is a beast!
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2 RepliesThat ok DeeJ, we all enjoy our bullets dissappearing. It's fun
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i just dont get why you barely have any ammo for handcannons, i dont have a problem with aiming my gun to hit someone