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Edited by XAMANDER:
6/4/2015 4:56:14 PM
429
Over 80% of first place finishers use hand cannons.
I kept track of what primary weapon the first place finisher on the wining and losing team used in PvP. And over 80% used hand cannons. Out of those hand cannons nearly 90% were either TLW or Thorn. The vex and red death came in a distant 3rd and 4th. First place players hardly ever used auto rifles or scout rifles.
Bungie has stated in the past they want to see PvP players using all the different weapon types and not see one particular weapon or weapon type being used more than another. Basically saying they want to see balanced weapons in the crucible. But when nearly all of first place finishers are only using 3 or four 4 weapons and the top 2 weapons are hand cannons then you know there's a major problem.
I think Bungie has taken the right steps so far by nerfing auto rifles and fusion rifles and buffing pulse rifles and scout rifles. Now it's time to take a serious look at hand cannons.
I know i didn't take into account grenade kills, heavy weapon kills, or special weapon kills, but i still think it's strong enough evidence that hand cannons, particularly TLW and Thron, are horribly overpowered.
Edit: I kept track of 200 matches. After each match you have 30 seconds to view the leaderboards before you are brought to the matchmaking lobby. I simply inspected the first place finishers on both the winning and losing team. About 50 or so people left matchmaking before i could inspect them. So i recorded about 350 first place finishers and their primary weapon.
Edit 2: I should make clear that the problem is with TLW and Thorn and not hand cannons in general. If there is going to be a nerf then it should only apply to TLW and Thorn.
English
#Destiny
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Though Thorn is dominantly used in pvp, it is actually shotguns that kill a lot. I equip Thorn as well in IB but i loathe to use it. I love scout rifles like the NAD and they do work well but can't compete at range with exotics HCs. Scout rifles require technique but because of HCs like Hawkmoon's range it just can't compete per dps one on one. Pulse rifles in pvp are not as numerous as you think and the two shot thing takes skill, they might equip yes, but i'm guessing its shotguns they use to kill a crapton. Pulse should be left alone. So should HC be nerfed? That is the debate but so far i have seen many people equip them in the team (i check every team mate equipment) and it is no guarantee they will be on top. Thorn however perhaps needs a less agressive DoT and shorter range as do the Hawkmoon mad range. The TLW I think should be left alone the range sucks and it does take a lot more skill to get in close and blast away. People equip Thorn it does 3 things: DoT, 1-2 killshot (empty till final round) and Range. But like I said the most times i notice when i get killed it is still the shotgun and I respond kindly with one.
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I finish first or second regularly and I use a legendary pulse.
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6 RepliesWhen did they buff scout rifles? I personally do not ever recall seeing a buff for them. I'm one of the few I've noticed who consistently finish first and use scout rifles. I love my multi tool and out gun most thorn users.
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2 RepliesPro tip: use Vision of Confluence. (It's not as good on Anomaly though).
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I would like to see the math for these percentages please
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But the other 100% use NLB
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10 RepliesEdited by ZerO DroB: 6/3/2015 10:05:53 PMHonestly everything is somewhat balanced, which is surprising seeing the sheer amount of weapons they have in the game. But let's be honest, The Thorns cheap as -blam!-. If you shoot me in the head once, fine, Ill live with that you took 75% of my health down. But when you're a smart player who knows how strong the thorn is and you actively try to counter thorn players with auto rifles(which is difficult, but can still be done with proper strafing), it Is beyond annoying when they shoot you with the second shot, even if in the foot and the burn damage kills you. I honestly think that's killed me more than the actual -blam!-ing gun damage. Hand cannons are fine, but The Thorn is not.
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4 RepliesBecause this games primary weapon mechanics are backwards. Most powerful should be scout rifle followed by pulse rifle then auto rifle and last the pistols. Whoever developed the guns probably had never fired one.
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Red Death doesn't like this post.
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HOLY SHIT GUYS BACK UP THIS GUY IS USING THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
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It's mostly because their opponents are idiots and stand in one spot shooting back at them and expect not to get popped in the head multiple times. Strafe, and the HC's are less effective. HC's might be slightly faster at killing, but 1 miss from a HC is worse for the shooter than a miss with a different weapon.
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This is proof that ghallarjorn would not be op because most of destiny players will be using an exotic primary in PvP. In PvE the ghallarjorn is primarily used in raids or high level PoE which indirectly tells the players they need to use ghallarjorn or something very similar to it.
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Idk, I do pretty well with my MIDA. Until I switched to the Xbox One controller, my kd went down the drain then
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1 ReplyEdited by a clumsy scrub: 6/3/2015 8:38:08 PMAutos shouldnt have been nerfed the second time. If you dont agree with that, then i will have no part in this discussion Hand cannons might need a slight nerf though, they are the obvious choice for crucible and its getting old.
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And I'm just sitting back with my skolar like what ever
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They already nerfed cannons But I think the hip fire bonus should b from hip not aiming Imho
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If you think hand cannons are a problem, you should've been around when the Vex hit the crucible before they neutered it.
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The auto rifles should be rebuffed and then it will be all better
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Edited by A Salt Shaker: 6/3/2015 2:16:52 PMI use no land. Place first often Hand cannons dont bother me
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2 RepliesOmg enough with the crying already.. WAHHHHh WAAHHhHhH -blam!-ing WAHHHH Thats all i hear in the forums
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Have you ever experience the reign of pocket infinity??? Much worse than the situation right now
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1 ReplyInstead of nerfing ARs and buffing everything else, they should've left ARs alone and buffed everything else. Since when can a pistol out shoot an AR at range? [spoiler]yes, this is a sci-fi game, but cmon now, a 6+" barrel having better range than a 16+" barrel?!?[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesI prefer using what I like. Scout rifles, auto rifles. But with the way the game is, if you can't beat em, join em. So I am working on my thorn just because everyone and there dog uses it. I am a mediocre player at pvp at the best of times but using thorn today I did exponentially better than normal. So I will go with the doesn't take skill to use as I finished first on my team multiple times. Either way to each there own. This debate will never be settled.
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85% of statistics are made up on the spot! Having said that you really have no valid point. Hand cannons are overused because when used properly they can outdamage most weapons. You have to make precision shots for this to actually work, so they require skill. Now here IS a valid point that everybody with false statistics and have extremely itchy nerf fingers need to realize... No matter what gets nerfed something will ALWAYS be OP. Players will find the next most powerful gun and over use it. It's just physics.
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The day when auto rifles gets buffed will be the day when I spend Etheric Light on my Shadow Price!....and stop using hand cannons (for a while)...
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7 RepliesJust buff the friggen autos back! People only use hand cannons because they are the only weapons that don't suck! Besides the occasional pulse rifle.
