I kept track of what primary weapon the first place finisher on the wining and losing team used in PvP. And over 80% used hand cannons. Out of those hand cannons nearly 90% were either TLW or Thorn. The vex and red death came in a distant 3rd and 4th. First place players hardly ever used auto rifles or scout rifles.
Bungie has stated in the past they want to see PvP players using all the different weapon types and not see one particular weapon or weapon type being used more than another. Basically saying they want to see balanced weapons in the crucible. But when nearly all of first place finishers are only using 3 or four 4 weapons and the top 2 weapons are hand cannons then you know there's a major problem.
I think Bungie has taken the right steps so far by nerfing auto rifles and fusion rifles and buffing pulse rifles and scout rifles. Now it's time to take a serious look at hand cannons.
I know i didn't take into account grenade kills, heavy weapon kills, or special weapon kills, but i still think it's strong enough evidence that hand cannons, particularly TLW and Thron, are horribly overpowered.
Edit: I kept track of 200 matches. After each match you have 30 seconds to view the leaderboards before you are brought to the matchmaking lobby. I simply inspected the first place finishers on both the winning and losing team. About 50 or so people left matchmaking before i could inspect them. So i recorded about 350 first place finishers and their primary weapon.
Edit 2: I should make clear that the problem is with TLW and Thorn and not hand cannons in general. If there is going to be a nerf then it should only apply to TLW and Thorn.
English
#Destiny
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Hey bro I just wana chuck a shout out to my three little words (two little words) I use it more than any of the above. My thorn still isn't maxed nor is my last word it's only 50% upgraded.
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Went back to red death and bad juju yesterday! Fits my playstyle better! Big respect to all those hand canon gods out there!
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3 RepliesI use over soul edict .. Wrecks !!!
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26 RepliesIt was definitely a mistake to buff Pulse rifles as much as they did, as long as (most) hand cannons and no scout rifles can kill in two headshots then neither should pulse rifles (and any hand cannon that does needs to be nerfed until it doesn't, especially TLW with its insane RoF and range, despite its low range stat). Pulse rifles need to be nerfed back until they can't kill with a two-burst headshot, and Auto Rifles never needed to be nerfed in the first place, it was only Suros that needed nerfing and even that they nerfed into the ground, other Auto rifles which weren't OP at all got the same nerf and are now ridiculously Underpowered. The Exotics should absolutely be the best weapons in the game, just not by as much as some of them are now, all Legendaries should be competitive with all Exotics even if the Exotics are slightly better.
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I feel bad for Xbox. Us Playstation users have variety. We have THREE Crucible weapons instead of two.
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12 RepliesEdited by Picklez_Nation: 6/3/2015 9:55:22 PMThey never buffed scout rifles don't make up stuff fruit cup
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I almost always get first, especially if I'm running with a full fireteam, and I always use vex. I just like the way it feels. And I hate the thorn
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86% of people that use statistics make them up on the spot.
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1 ReplyI've gotten 1st tons of times with bad juju. I think it's underrated.
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2 RepliesHere's another statistic... Over 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
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Please be clearer in your title. I happen to use Timurs Lash and there's nothing OP about it but I use HCs on my hunter, ARs on my Titan, and SRs on my warlock. I'm running the IB on my hunter currently.
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3 RepliesIts hard to use other guns when kids on the forums wanted Nerfs for all the guns they get killed by. Watch soon. Thorns gonna get Nerfed then Kids are gonna start targeting The Last Word because it "Shoots fast." They will never take my Last Word from me. EVER!!!
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Honestly, if I can manage to have a good game, scout rifles are pretty solid. Either get one like MIDA or one with firefly. Those allow for fast movement speeds while attacking or firefly provides a pretty good area damage. There are way less scout rifles than anything though. Every match with a scout user in first is much harder to come across.
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I agree that they should be looked at.Only the exotic hand cannons.Before people say they should be overpowered because it is exotic.You are wrong.It should feel/look unique & different from the legendary & below gear.Also,eh is everyone under the impression gear/weapons is supposed to matter in regular crucible?Just because you have a exotic you should not outperform in regular because it is exotic.Regular Pvp should be about the skill of the player regardless of gear.Iron Banner/Temple of Osiris should be about skill/gear/level/teamwork.That was the impression I get from it,anyway.
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Hand canons have great impact-to-fire rate, auto rifles do basically no damage now, scout rifles are shit in close range, and pulse rifles are only used now because of the damage increase. The problem with the weapons is NOT their stats, because hand canons have already had their range nerfed AND they added more weapon sway after each shot. The problem are the perks when combined with the stats. Thorn's rate of fire paired with its impact and its DOT is the issue(It can sometimes even get final round damage on more than just the final round). TLW's rate of fire paired with its glitchy hip fire damage while aiming and its ability to be fired full auto is the issue. Hawkmoon's rate of fire paired with its impact and its ability to stack all 3 chances for extra damage on one bullet is the issue. If they could fix the glitches and then balance the perks they have based on their stats, they'd be ok. Also, have you ever thought about the possibility that some just play better with handcanons? Maybe they aren't good at controlling the recoil of pulse rifles/auto rifles. Maybe they want to be more up close and personal than a scout rifle will allow.
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Been trying to get used to queen breakers bow which doesn't get me a lot of kills (yet) and as soon as I switch to tlw I shoot to the top of the leader board lol
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1 ReplyI don't think hand cannons need a damage nerf. It would take away the purpose. They need a severe range nerf
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1 ReplyNow with hand cannons being op, I feel bad when I use them. Once they get nerfed I will be able to use them again and not feel like a douche...
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1 ReplyWhat is tlw
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I use red death
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Messenger.
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2 RepliesEdited by turbtators: 6/4/2015 12:06:23 AMI'm surprised it wasn't higher. I'm guessing the other 20% is pulse rifles.
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The other 20% use shotguns
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You see, back when Destiny was young, And the Crucible was so much fun, we dance around when the Suros still rocked! Suros rocking! And your trigger just couldn't keep still! Ok I'm sorry, but really, back when the Suros Regime rained supreme, all the people that didn't have it cried for a nerf, and it was fair at the time. But then some people complained that the Thorn was to lack luster for the hard Bounty for it. So it got a buff. With the old king gone, a new one took its place, changing crucible forever.
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And over 80% of last place finishers also use hand canons.
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Though Thorn is dominantly used in pvp, it is actually shotguns that kill a lot. I equip Thorn as well in IB but i loathe to use it. I love scout rifles like the NAD and they do work well but can't compete at range with exotics HCs. Scout rifles require technique but because of HCs like Hawkmoon's range it just can't compete per dps one on one. Pulse rifles in pvp are not as numerous as you think and the two shot thing takes skill, they might equip yes, but i'm guessing its shotguns they use to kill a crapton. Pulse should be left alone. So should HC be nerfed? That is the debate but so far i have seen many people equip them in the team (i check every team mate equipment) and it is no guarantee they will be on top. Thorn however perhaps needs a less agressive DoT and shorter range as do the Hawkmoon mad range. The TLW I think should be left alone the range sucks and it does take a lot more skill to get in close and blast away. People equip Thorn it does 3 things: DoT, 1-2 killshot (empty till final round) and Range. But like I said the most times i notice when i get killed it is still the shotgun and I respond kindly with one.