From the horses mouth "We want to make sure your level of social engagement in Destiny is something that you have complete and total control over." Is that a true statement? I think not, the fact that I can't control who I speak to outside of a FireTeam is testimony to that. Total control means I can chose when, where and who I speak to and who I don't.

That's exactly what the Fireteam system does. The player makes the choice to be social with the other players by sending the invite/request. An 'on-by-default' or 'proximity' chat hinders the element of choice. As it is, it is completely optional from the start and it's an 'opt in' rather than the standard 'opt out.'

It is not complete and total control, it's limited control. Can I determine if a request I receive is from a ranting lunatic or a sane person? No, I have to accept then Finds out. It makes things simpler for Bungie to limit communication, they don't have the hassle of policing it that way. The fact that so many posts here relate to this issue would indicate that their decision is questionable. Time and player numbers will eventually decide if their decision is good for business or bad.

If I load into an area and can automatically hear everyone there where is the choice? The choice is to block/mute certain people or all of them therefore opting out of all possible social interaction. Opting in is making the decision to be social; it's saying 'yes' to it. If you invite someone to your Fireteam and they're an unsavory sort; kick them from the Fireteam and you no longer have to hear them. It's complete control. This also eliminates the possible need for policing and the possibility of false reports. No need for a report system=no report system=no false reports.

note that i stated you could toggle the chat on or off. you have the choice in my option also the fire team does not give complete control as you can only talk to three people max while in a game with exception to raids. you do not have to option to talk or communicate with the other 12 people in the area

That's all well and good assuming Bungie has the resources to monitor such a system. Down the road I can see this becoming the same set up that GTAO has with poor sport lobbies and, now, a 'psych' profile rating. With modifying the Fireteam-only system to fulfill the desires of those wanting prox chat there becomes no need for monitoring. What is it exactly you want to do? Talk with randoms? Fireteam invite/request answers for that. Help others kill things? Just shoot handles that one. Help others find stuff? Loot/chests aren't always there for everyone at the same time; if they've already found it you've just shown them an empty space. And maybe they want to find it on their own but your 'help' just took that opportunity for discovery away. Coordinate during Public Events? A "Public Event Chat: On/Off" in the settings handles that and would be a good idea if it was added. Talk to people that possibly can't hear you? Talk all you want; nothing's stopping you except knowing that they can't. The only thing prox chat would allow you to do that you can't do without it is be inappropriate to strangers. The Fireteam-only chat could definitely used some modifications and some other features could be added to the game that would satisfy the specific wants that many think prox chat is the answer for. The Fireteam-only chat was beautiful, in my opinion, not flawless. Ultimately some sort of 'on-by-default' chat system will get implemented, I'm sure. Those of us that loved the Fireteam-only chat will adapt because we've had to in every other multiplayer game. With any luck Bungie will keep a Fireteam-only chat as an option.

[quote]What is it exactly you want to do? Talk with randoms? Fireteam invite/request answers for that. [/quote] fire teams only support 3 players in free roam and i often have 5-6 friends on line at any given time so my team will almost always be full. i want to be able to talk to the people around me so i can share/get advice, create and preform battle tactics for world events (such as telling the newer players that the legs on the devil walker are its weak points not its head... had that problem several time with people in the beta and then also co-ordinate which leg we should all go for first) and make new friends to play with easily for the odd time im the only on in my friends list. there would be nothing more frustrating then going threw the hassle of inviting some random to my fire team and finding out that they are a complete dink and having to go threw hassle of removing them from my fireteam... with my option you can tell if some one is a dink before all that trouble and then invite/mute them immediately with just one action instead of the three or four needed the way it was in the beta. [quote]The only thing prox chat would allow you to do that you can't do without it is be inappropriate to strangers.[/quote] here is a list of things prox chat would allow that you cant do now... 1. co-ordinate world event tactics with more then 2 other people. 2. share chest locations with more then just 2 other people. 3. ask a stranger for directions when lost (seeing as there is no map) 4. meet new people easily and make friends 5. not have to go to orbit to join a random fireteam full of people you may not like and may not talk just to see if you can find some one to play with 6. allow more then 3 friends to play together while keeping in contact. 7. warn people of strong ??? lvl creatures in the area they are heading into. 8. thank some one without having to open up their profile and send them a written message for reviving you. 9. tell the kind stranger trying to help you defeat the lvl ??? monster that instead of shooting him they have to trick it into falling of the cliff to get the chest bellow. im just gonna stop there... there are more reasons but i think buy now if you dont get the point your just stubborn and nothing i say will make you believe that communication in this kind of game will only make it better...

Ok. Even though most of your points are covered by this: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/68704026/0/0/1 I'll go over it again. [quote]fire teams only support 3 players in free roam and i often have 5-6 friends on line at any given time so my team will almost always be full.[/quote] A central theme of this game seems to be 3 person teams. Raids were described as two teams of 3. [quote]i want to be able to talk to the people around me so i can share/get advice, create and preform battle tactics for world events (such as telling the newer players that the legs on the devil walker are its weak points not its head... had that problem several time with people in the beta and then also co-ordinate which leg we should all go for first)[/quote] A "Public Event Chat: On/Off" in the settings would pretty much cover this. A full Fireteam could enter a Public Event, chat with the randoms during the event, and leave the event intact. Prox chat isn't the [b]only[/b] answer. [quote]make new friends to play with easily for the odd time im the only on in my friends list.[/quote] Fireteam invite/request. [quote] there would be nothing more frustrating then going threw the hassle of inviting some random to my fire team and finding out that they are a complete dink and having to go threw hassle of removing them from my fireteam... with my option you can tell if some one is a dink before all that trouble and then invite/mute them immediately with just one action instead of the three or four needed the way it was in the beta. [/quote] I'm guessing the 'hassle' you speak of is the 'to orbit and back' problem and I'd be surprised if this isn't a seamless process come launch. As I said before; I think there must have been some technical reason it had to function that way in the beta otherwise it just doesn't make sense that it did. Hearing 'dinks' by default is exactly the reason the Fireteam system exists(so we don't [b]have[/b] to hear them). [quote]1. co-ordinate world event tactics with more then 2 other people.[/quote] See my "Public Event Chat: On/Off" idea mentioned above. [quote]2. share chest locations with more then just 2 other people.[/quote] Just because a chest is there for you doesn't mean it's there for anyone else. I teamed up with a guy; showed him a spot where I had found a chest; it was there for him and not for me. Other times a random would get my attention and lead me to nothing but was clearly trying to show me a chest location. Point is, your loot is your loot; their loot is their loot. [quote]3. ask a stranger for directions when lost (seeing as there is no map) [/quote] Perhaps a map will exist come launch. Additionally, if you have an objective(if you're not in the Tower then you have an objective) your ghost will guide you. [quote]4. meet new people easily and make friends [/quote] It's a shame this didn't happen for you. In the 5 days I played the beta I played with several people; I came out of it with 5 new psn friends without sending a single Fireteam invite/request(not even once). The friends I made during the beta are people I want to play with again; our entire interaction was game related(as it should be). In the year that I played GTAOnline I made only 5 new friends. [quote]5. not have to go to orbit to join a random fireteam full of people you may not like and may not talk just to see if you can find some one to play with[/quote] Again, I'll be surprised if this isn't a seamless interaction come launch. It should be. There's also a good chance that a lot of us(on psn) will just have our mics off until we're sure we want to be heard(that's my M.O. in multiplayer games and I don't think I'm alone in this). [quote]6. allow more then 3 friends to play together while keeping in contact. [/quote] Again, 3 person teams seems to be a central idea of this game. I don't see that changing. And I'm pretty sure the console's 'party chat' feature covers this as well. [quote]7. warn people of strong ??? lvl creatures in the area they are heading into. [/quote] Fireteam invite/request. Or, you could just let them enjoy the act of discovery that you got to enjoy your first time through. Were this a perma-death game your point would be valid; since this isn't there's no real benefit to the warning. [quote]8. thank some one without having to open up their profile and send them a written message for reviving you. [/quote] The 'bow' action worked quite nicely for this. I found it to be a great way to thank people in the game. Not once did I think 'I should send them a "Thank You" note.' There was no need to. [quote]9. tell the kind stranger trying to help you defeat the lvl ??? monster that instead of shooting him they have to trick it into falling of the cliff to get the chest bellow. [/quote] Fireteam invite/request. And keep in mind that the chest may only exist for you and not anyone else. [quote]nothing i say will make you believe that communication in this kind of game will only make it better... [/quote] Why do you think that 'no prox chat' is equivalent to 'no communication?' Those are not mutually exclusive ideas. There [b]is[/b] communication. And it's not just you that make these kinds of statements, almost every post about wanting prox chat makes it sound like without prox chat there's no talking. That's simply false. Factually incorrect. TL;DR see here: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/68667988/0/0/1 Still TL;DR Every argument for prox chat can be answered by something other than prox chat. It's an additional feature with additional problems. I will, most likely, keep turned off if it gets added(as well as lots of other players that are even less likely to speak up about it than I). My prediction is that it will get added at some point. Hopefully well after launch; long enough for people to get used to the game as is and be able to make a completely informed argument against the Fireteam-only chat. We've only played the beta and I'd bet that some 'missing' features will be in the final game(maybe even some things none of us has even thought of yet).

[quote]Fireteam invite/request.[/quote] i want to be making these friends even during the times my fire team is full. i dont know about you but for me it is much easier to find something when i am not looking for it then it is to find it when i need it. [quote]I'm guessing the 'hassle' you speak of is the 'to orbit and BACK' PROBLEM[/quote] the hassle i speak of is the steps involved in the invitation process. 1. find the person 2. select the person and hit interact before they get away 3. invite the person 4. find out they are a dint 5. remove the person with my method all you would have to do to not talk to people is keep the chat option off. and if you have it on and hear some one that needs muting you would only have to go to the profile and mute them once [quote]if you're not in the Tower then you have an objective[/quote] most of peoples loot and resource farming will be done in free roam with no active objective... [quote]It's a shame this didn't happen for you. In the 5 days I played the beta I played with several people; I came out of it with 5 new psn friends [/quote] the reason i was not able to connect with random people was because to me friendship even one connected by virtual reality should be more then just business or gaming. if i am friends with some one even on the console platform i like to talk about more then just the games, human interaction with a "friend" should be more then just down to business. also my fire team was full the entire beta with my friends so i was un able to invite new people to my fireteam. and on the xbone party chat did not work while the beta was running. [quote]our entire interaction was game related(as it should be)[/quote] obviously your idea of friendship and mine are completely different. it must pretty dull at parties you go to when all you want to talk about is the party you are at. [quote]Again, 3 person teams seems to be a central idea of this game. I don't see that changing. And I'm pretty sure the console's 'party chat' feature covers this as well.[/quote] again, on the xbone the party chat feature does not work when the game is running. this is probably not bungies fault but rather Microsoft, and with all the on line issues xbone has been having lately i would be very surprised if this issue was fixed any time soon [quote]there's no real benefit to the warning[/quote] ya other then making it a warm and social community like the game is advertised as. [quote]The 'bow' action worked quite nicely for this. I found it to be a great way to thank people in the game. Not once did I think 'I should send them a "Thank You" note.' There was no need to.[/quote] its pretty cool you had a bow option... i mean i could only sit, dance, wave, or point. and people would often take off to fast for me to thank them with a wave. [quote]Fireteam invite/request. And keep in mind that the chest may only exist for you and not anyone else.[/quote] again my fire team was full, the only reason we three couldnt get the beast to fall this time was because the random was taking all of its agro by shooting at it and we couldn't communicate to him/her that they were doing no damage to it at all and actually ruining our plan by leading it away from the cliff. every chest i found was also always there for my fireteam unless it was one of the gold chests that they had already discovered. and nothing is Tl;dr as long as its intelligent

I'm not going point-by-point like I did before; it's clear that we understand each other. Thank you for the reply; I was totally prepared to read some rude response and now I feel a little bad for thinking that way. Sorry. My idea of friendship and yours are probably close to identical. The thing is, I don't actually know any of my psn friends by anything other than their psn name. I've made stronger bonds with people on game forums than I have with people I've met in a game. Almost all the psn friends I've made since getting a ps4 have been from game forums. In the beta we had conversations in orbit about other things but on the ground it was all action and that's how I'd like to approach Destiny at the start. I was so sucked in by this game and immersed in it that it would've bothered me if I got reminded that it's just a game while in the thick of it. It's been a very long time since I've had that happen with a video game. With open/public chat there always seem to be a bunch a people spouting racial slurs and sexist/sexual remarks to the ladies. I always end up muting everyone. Perhaps this is a bit different on xbl. The invite-only system in the beta contributed to this not being the case imo. I'm pretty quiet at parties and in general. I don't find relating to others on the basis of small talk to be very meaningful. I'm more interested in what makes people tick; why their moral choices are what they are, what they think about existence, etc. These are the types of things that are constantly filling my mind. Sometimes I wish I could be more comfortable with small talk. I'm pretty sure prox chat will happen. You make a strong case for it. I like your idea but I think that poll is a bit oversimplifying. When prox chat happens I hope there's a way to keep the current Fireteam settings as they were in the beta. I'm really not against prox chat; I just don't want it to completely replace what's already there. Many of the posts about it come off as though it would be a switch rather than an addition. So, without this last bit as an included option my vote is that it's unfair. Not that I think prox chat shouldn't happen; it just shouldn't completely replace the Fireteam system as it was in the beta. The option would satisfy more people if it was "Chat Settings: Proximity(hear anyone within 'earshot')/Fireteam(only those that are on your 3 person Fireteam)/Off(nobody can hear you/you can hear nobody)." It would help if other peoples' chat settings would show up when you 'inspected' them; this should also include if they've got a mic or not. I still believe that everything you can do with prox chat is either unnecessary or can be done without it. Prox chat would make some positive things much easier and at the same time make some negative things easier as well. You and I have clearly demonstrated that it's not as simple a thing as "prox chat: on/off." The thing about the chests being there for your team makes sense if they started that area with you. The guy I showed a chest location to had just got there while I had been derping around for a couple hours already. It's too bad that we're not on the same system; I bet we'd get along nicely in the world of Destiny(it's a shame you bought the wrong console. :P). Did you check here for possible party chat solutions? http://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/11932

i also have a ps4, how ever i can not afford the game on both consoles. my ideas intention is not to replace the fire team chat but to have the prox chat as an additional option. i shall clarify that in the post. i checked that link. i port forward my systems so that i always have open nat type and i play on a computer monitor for less input delay so unfortunately leaving the party snapped for me makes the game to small.

K I get what you're saying but if I decide to do a strike mission or crucible with random players I can't talk to them, at least that's my experience from the beta. Logic would dictate that those other players and myself are part of a FireTeam, after all we are playing together, and yet I have no control over talking to them unless, presumably I invite them to join my friends list. I may be wrong in saying that but in the time I spent playing the beta I never spoke to another person, admittedly I'm not an online gamer and I bought a months subscription to PS Plus to play Destiny beta and the only social engagement I had was waving and dancing with people.