This was a reply I made to another poster...But I figured I should put it up here so everyone can enjoy it.
For something that has proven as controversial as it has in the playerbase this should really be a "no brainer" for Bungie.
They should be trying to cater to the largest group of players possible, and allow full MM.
Instead Bungie is choosing to prove that they have "no brains".
And are indeed alienating a large percentage of their potential playerbase.
As to the wisdom or efficacy of this decision time will only tell.
But as of right now, they have refused to open MM - so they do stand to lose players to this policy.
Will the ppl who stay behind be enough to "carry the game"
Probably.
For a while.
But I think once everyone has beaten the game...and ppl start moving on to other games it will become less important.
Destiny will become just another game...
I figure that within 2 moths of launch it will lose 50% of it's playerbase either to boredom or indeed to the lack of proper communications/MM.
(Also due to their competitors releasing games)
It's Bungie's choice.
If they don't want ppl like us to play... then we don't have to.
PPL think that MM leads to a crappy game...I say the opposite...Clans are responsible for the worst offences in games.
They lead to elitism and non-co-operation, as well as exploitation and abuse of the game on a massive scale.
If these are the only players that Bungie wants to cater to then that's fine...but they do so at the risk of poisoning their own community to the point where no one else wants to join them.
You can already see it here in the forums... I can't see any reason to help any of these ppl...
Or to help Bungie promote their game if this is their stance on the issue.
I'll just play other games that don't have ridiculous "requirements".
And I'll have MORE FUN doing it, precisely because I don't have to waste my time to do "personal MM" when MM should have been a built in feature
I really don't have a problem with that - more time for me.
And I suggest that you and everyone else consider doing the same.
Play the game, until the point where you can no longer progress...and then stop playing and move on to something else.
In protest of Bungie's decision.
If they think they can stand to lose our interest and support in the game.
I .E. If they think they can lose ALL the ppl (with the personality type) who are actually being helpful to new ppl...
vs those just wanting to be selfish and only help themselves.
If they think they can loose all of "us" and still have a successful game..then I say - Have at it hoss!
They'll probably start thinking about changing their tune when we all start getting to Raiding level, and have difficulty finding groups.
Then other games will start coming out like Borderlands the Pre-sequel and COD AW- games that will be more attractive because they don't have any "requirements"
Like I said, if they don't want us to play...we don't have to.
I think they'll probably consider changing their tune if they started to see ppl leaving en-masse.
But I think by then the damage will already have been done, and it will be too late.
Ppl will move on.
And this game won't be such a big deal anymore.
Not that it even should be right now...it's made for 13 year olds to play.
I just think it's so ironic that ppl can be so ignorant as to be on here arguing that MM will "ruin" the game.
No guys...
Ppl leaving - whether it's to play other games, or because there is no MM will be what really ruins the game.
Look at the polls 50% say no MM 40% say yes
And that is based on the beta.
That means that sure, a "majority" of players "don't want MM"
BUT 40% OF PPL DO WANT MM
That is not a low enough percentage that Bungie can just ignore it , or ignore the consequences of not having MM..
At least not if they want their game to be successful long term.
Because I fully expect those numbers to change radically as a completely new wave of players begin to play and join at launch.
That 50% approval rating could easily shift to 40% or lower and then what would all these ppl be saying?
But no guys..keep complaining...please!
It really helps to prove your point...smh (derp just derp)
I feel like if you ever needed to find a reson why there SHOULD BE MM
Just take a look on these forums.
There should be MM just so that new players don't have to come on here and be exposed to the things said by the "lovely" ppl that they will be expected to play with.
They will turn around so fast once they realize there is nothing here for them but that, that you won't even see them.
No one new will want to join or start playing after the ""initial launch wave" of players.
And there will be no one there to help them (with "no strings" attached).
This game is already dead on arrival.
It's a sinking ship...and I'm paddling away in a life-raft whistling a merry tune.
I've been around long enough to know it when I see it.
I've seen plenty of games that were just as hyped, made by just as good a company - fail because of asinine policies like this one.
PPL on here can delude themselves all they want about how it will "make the game better worse" or whatever they want...
They Ignore the bigger picture to their own detriment, and everyone else's
The funny thing will be when they show up again with the next game and argue once again that MM will RUIN their "precious" game.
As they run another game into the ground so fast, to the point that no-one wants to play it anyways.
Just some food for thought, but seriously just consider that it's not such a big deal.
If Bugie wants to -blam!- their game all up to hell then that's their decision.
We lowly peons can only sit in awe of their majesty right?
We'll see how successful their policies are when ppl start walking.
One last final note...
A lot of reviewers are waiting till the game launches to conduct proper reviews, as they have "not seen the full game" yet, or don't want to "judge it too early" etc.
I personally am expecting quite mixed reviews for this game.
I don't think it will have the "instant critical success" that it's banking on.
Just my opinion I know...
But I think once ppl actually start to figure out just how bad a system is in place...they'll start to complain as well.
And Cheers man...don't listen to the ppl on here...they are only capable of the most basic of rhetoric...and are completely incapable of critical thought, or perspective, it's not worth it to argue with them...They don't have even a basic understanding of human nature or psychology...and instead are only arguing from their narrow illogical viewpoint of "Other games are like X so this game should be like Y, and that will fix everything" or "This game should be this way because it only benefits me, and that's all I care about!"...without even a rudimentary working knowledge of all the points involved...or what the alternative outcomes could potentially be...
They see anything that conflicts with their ideas as a threat, and they lash out because they are scared.
Which I find hilarious....because it's like...what are they complaining about?...U SCURRED?
If we want MM then let us have MM. it's our business and won't effect them...
But, oh wait, I get it...it's because they are scared that they aren't good enough...
That's why they need other ppl to "help" them play games...
Because they are not confident in their own abilities (or other ppl's abilities)
And therefore rely on other ppl's acceptance and approval to measure their own self-worth.
Which is actually kind of pathetic.
Pathetic - That they feel the need to come on here and argue against something that does not effect them at all, just so they can feel good about themselves and their "cliques".
I personally don't need or require anyone's approval.
And find all these ppl to be incredibly pathetic.
If Bungie wants to pander to them...
I say let em.
At least we'll all know where they are for now...and can avoid them.
Filthy parasites.
English
#feedback
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The problem is content vs time. It's not that bungie made the decision based on people's preference to raids, or how they want clans to be a big part of the game. It's just simply content I know bringing up MMO's should not be the answer, but ask any veteran warcraft player about raids after the raid finder was added. before raids were hard, took commitment and had ppl grinding to be able to even start raiding. Raids used to take months before completing by top guilds who would then relay the info needed to beat it so that other lesser guilds could have a better chance to attempt it. Raids used to take days, using lockouts effectively even ppl with time restraints could join and have some fun. The biggest pro about not having more accessibility is that everytime you log in you have an objective, a goal, something to do. And it's to make your character stronger. With raid finder in WoW now raids take next to nothing to complete, content is downed within hours of release, which leaves players left with nothing to do until the next bit of content is released. Destiny is no different with limited content for awhile, having millions of players use a MM system would have that content downed within weeks or perhaps days who would teach more ppl which would make it easier making the content dry out faster than planned. It's a bold design choice that will teach players discipline and respect for the content created
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3 RepliesBungie is pandering to every class of player in this game. As a casual player myself I'm pretty shocked at how whiny everybody is being that they may have a hard time playing like 2% of this game. Bungie has said from day 1 raids will be extremely hard and MM wouldn't be conducive to the type of teamwork you'll need to complete the raid. I'm going to go ahead and assume bungie knows exactly what they're doing since they've been doing it for two decades now and have created some of the best games I've even played. (Marathon & halo for example) They aren't pandering to clans, in fact if you look at how multiplayer is, they are making a game that's almost anti-clan except for the raids. And just because 40% of the people who have never played this game want MM doesn't mean anything, that's like saying 40% of the people polled hate chocolate ice cream, but non of them have ever tasted it. Let's give it a taste before we decide that it's compete shit.
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1 ReplyLol. Too long; stopped reading after "clans create non-cooperation. Don't worry though, I'll call the waahmbulance for you.
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This is really... Really long
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13 RepliesThat's a whole lot of opinion conning from a community that had yet to actually try a raid. We don't know exactly why they say the raids a so hard, I for one have faith that bungie can make a challenging experience that will justify no mm. Also, quit crying you big babies.
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5 RepliesThere is no MM for raids due to the fact that it might take all week to do the raid. You going to get grouped up with random people and then be like "well, we got the first boss down. Same time tomorrow night?" That's not going to work so well... Or at all. There is no way you can coordinate with randoms to finish a raid that might take all week to complete and since you can only run it once a week with each character, they didn't want to waste people time with something that just will not work. Yeah, you might get matched up with people that know every part of the raid and what to do, they might even stick around for 10-15 hours until it's complete, but honestly, what are the chances of that happening? Probably not even 1% so why include it? I'm sorry, but people who think MM will work for raids misunderstand what bungie made this raids to be. You don't have five friends to raids with. Post on the forums you're availability for the week and look for a group that can match it. Bungie didn't make the raid for everyone, they have said that, they made it for those hardcore fans that want something harder than playing through Halo 3 on legendary with all skulls on. They made it for those who beat cod on veteran the first night and wish there was more of a challenge. They made it so that the only way you could beat it was to try all week long with a group of friends because when the group fails because you died, your friends will understand, ransoms won't.
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Edited by Frozen_Fire_14: 9/2/2014 5:42:33 AMI don't think not having MM will make much of a difference in how long people will play destiny. Example 1. People who talk about how much they hate COD. How disappointing the last game was, how bad they say the new one will be, and expressing their genuine hate for the franchise. Yet I see them still buying it, still playing it, and still ranting year after year after year. 2. People who complain about BF4. How bad they think it is compared to BF3. Whining about snipers, ACE 23, no squad in main menu, etc. Yet they still buy all DLC content, and they still play it day after day. I have a feeling that same situation will happen to Destiny & everyone upset about no MM. They will complain about it, they will whine about it, and they will still buy and play it for weeks after release. Anyone else have this feeling?
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No MM. A lot of people agree that no MM is good (around 50% of people, due to polls here, agree with Bungie). I quit reading at this - [quote]This game is already dead on arrival.[/quote] Honestly, if you think that, you are ignoring 90%+ of the game, given that 1 raid is less than 10% of the game. But hey. I can type like this too. I'm glad Bungie isn't including MM. Reward those who invest the most time and effort. No participation ribbon for beating your head into a raid until you get lucky enough to get better geared/skilled players. Bai.
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If you can't find people on your own to play with without matchmaking... It's your own damn fault. That's like standing in a buffet and saying you can't find anything to eat.
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I think we should make an argument for a party finder or group finder . And let it allow us to change character in lobby.
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3 RepliesEdited by Ninebreaker: 9/2/2014 5:00:03 AM[quote]"They should be trying to cater to the largest group of players possible." [/quote] No.
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5 RepliesWow Ninja! That's a lot of text. I read it. No MM. The hell with it. I played the beta, the game is flawed. The comm. and social interaction is weak at it's best. Bungie said they are trying something new. Let them. The game launches soon. The sales numbers are greater then the forum membership. I believe the day after launch we will see their feedback. Bungie can add, remove, buff, and nerf as they see fit. The players will make that happen. Good luck, good hunting.
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26 RepliesYeah if anyone actually read all that, good for them. Seriously though. Someone tells you they made something so hard you'll need 5 of your friends all working together to even hope to complete it. Your reaction is, 'That's bullcrap. I should be able to do this thing with random people.' 'You'll need to be able to communicate. It's going to take hours. You're going to die. Repeatedly. You really should get your buddies together an-' 'F%@$ you dude. Find me some random people so I can try this.' 'You don't want that. You'll just get more frustrated than you wou-' 'Don't tell me what to do! I will do this with random people. I don't want to meet new people in order to work together to achieve this difficult thing. I want to jump into it with random people and smash our way through.' 'But it's designed to challenge you working with the perfect grou-' 'Shut up and give me what I want!'
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Why you needed to put this much worthless crap in the same post? So much things wrong so much ignorance so much fantasy with no foundation that it's kinda funny like it's funny when someone fall downs Facts are that bungie is saving your ass forcing you to play the way intended and someone is just explaining why to ignorant ppl like you Ignorant in the sense that you ignore what consequences MM would have and how much more you would be whining if they actually add it So choose if you want to sulk and be all kiddy "if you don't do the way I want I won't play" or if you are a player and will organize for raid. Your choice but if you choose to not bother it's yourself that prevent you from raiding not bungie. Bungie just prevented you to fall in a pit of hate and frustration and you should only be grateful for that Cheers
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I will buy this game but once it gets to a point where I can't Raid because of this no MM situation I will move on to other games. I also have no intention of buying any expansions or season passes when there is the risk I won't be able to access some of the content within for reasons I have explained elsewhere. I have said all along the "OPTION" for MM should be there. People can then decide to use it or not. There is nothing wrong with giving people the choice
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12 RepliesEdited by Guardian6356: 8/10/2014 6:24:31 PMGive us the ability to communicate with each other, but don't put in MM. I honestly believe that getting a Raid together wouldn't be an issue if we had a way to actually communicate besides waving, pointing, dancing and sitting down...........just my opinion.
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Edited by IamPluto: 9/2/2014 7:15:36 AMIf you're going to have a post this long, at least tell us what it is about. "Mm again", is extremely vague. I had to view the comments to know it was about Raids. State your position, then argue from there. And please don't start off with pointless insults. That aside, I don't think there should be mm. We would benefit from a much better method than mm. That method would be Boards. It allows players to group, non randomly. You would know they have a mic. You would know there stats and gear as well.
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So butthurt just calm down
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Edited by Johnbonne: 9/2/2014 5:40:20 AMI can appreciate wanting matchmaking, but I think we need to do a few things first: 1) See what state raiding is in first. There's no point in calling for Matchmaking if it's convenient enough to gather groups, make friends and join clans. 2) See the feedback from raiders who have completed said content, and then find out how much raiding experience they've had in this kind of game. Until then I can't really see many positives from MM. Sure you're seeing the content, but what happens when seeing becomes more demanding, to wanting more loot, to wanting more raids and undesirable changes? I've seen this in the MMO sphere and to put it bluntly, it doesn't work as intended. Sure you're seeing that raid content in the game you paid for, that I fully agree with, but you're not getting the thrills - that bitterness will only lead to anger and disappointment from most folk. What I'd agree to is a MM difficulty for Raiding, so any nerfs that apply can affect that mode and that mode only. I'm not sure what penalties there'd be for matchmaking 'raiders' but for those who take the time to get a clan, organise and play on the other higher difficulties I believe deserve better. That way I hope everybody wins, perhaps not equally, but they still win.
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Destiny is a game thats not meant to be beat for they are always adding in new things. And if people like you keep saying the game will die off in two months youre outright ignorant jackasses. Look at games like CoD BF and Halo. People still play those and all there is is multiplayer. Destiny offers more than that. And if games like those three can live off of multiplayer, so can Destiny, because Destiny has a MP too. But not just that.....it has a large and immersive PvE to play that a lot will enjoy. I know ill enjoy Destiny for a long time. Sure there are other games coming out that ill play too: Project Spark, Borderlands PreSequel, CoD AW, and DA Inquisition. But ill still be playing Destiny.
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Edited by LetBloodline: 8/11/2014 5:25:33 AMThe "no brainers" and those "elitists" are only making possible for YOU to beat a raid. And you are only asking to make it impossible for you and a mass of players like you to clear raids. You are the kid asking a flamethrower thinking it's a water gun and whining that elitists and no brainer are denying it to you You are asking that a car will have a selfdestruct button instead of clacson. It can be ok for YOU but to give you they need to sell 10.000.000 of those cars with clients not talking to anyone that can warn them about it. It's sure to create more problems then the really rare ones it may solve
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Play the game. Make friends during strikes and PvP. You will get invited to clans and raids. It really will work itself out without the need for MM. There are plenty of people who will be playing the game that like running clans and organizing raid groups. Raids are not MM so they can make them extremely challenging. Anyone who has worked with a good team knows the huge difference it makes in what you can accomplish.
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...OMG it never ends! I almost drowned in well space words! As if MM wasn't a thing in Destiny... WTF? It's just one game mode! Why did you jump over the moon to type this? Cool story bro. I didn't read the whole thing...
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So people are really this salty about no MM in 1 game mode. Saying people CANT play when really they just DONT WANT TO ask 5 people to play. That just ruins the whole experience. Ridiculous
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10 RepliesI think MM should be included for people who don't have a strong net of friends. I probably won't need it, but it's nice for other people to have. It would take a lot of work and server space and such but it should still be done. I personally am a bit elitist if I do something super hard (like a raid) successfully though lol. But people saying they would need to nerf raids to make it easier, why would they? They could still have it be hard as tîts on a cold winter day. It would make it HARDER imo if you do it with randoms.