A big part of what sells it for me is Ryan. A great villain always gets me sucked into a story really fast, and Ryan’s one of the best imo! It’s also one of the only two games to make me feel genuine anger. I’m not a very angry person, so that’s always really rare for me. That plot twist really hit me. (the other is Fallout: New Vegas if you’re curious—at Nipton) I remember Bioshock 2’s story not being quite as good, but I feel like pointing out Lamb is just as awesome as Ryan. [i]”It is raining in Rapture, Ryan. You have simply chosen not to notice.”[/i] -Sofia Lamb

Let me rephrase a bit. I didn’t think Bioshock 1 was everything it thought it was... I did think that it was a solid and (mostly) enjoyable experience. The fights got a little sloggy and I stopped looking forward to them about halfway through. The morality was... just cut and dry to be honest. Gosh do I harvest a child or not? You get untold power!!! But I have a shotgun that shots lightening. It takes care of business. Really... It’s not a quandary if there’s no reason to do it other than to be a jerk. The villain... was solid. And I agree good villains are exceedingly hard to come by. I despise almost all villains. Not because I’m supposed to because “evil” but because they’re just cheap, lame, or have power because plot. But Bioshock’s was... solid. Well placed. Narratively secure. And that’s admirable. I resented the twist. Here’s why... I’m playing an FPS. The narrative doesn’t get to claim I’ve been brainwashed when it’s version of “tricking” you is to make you play an FPS the way you play an FPS. I don’t need to be told to grab a weapon and hit people with it. It’s an FPS... that’s just going to happen. I’m doing it anyway. Probably to a bunch of characters. Even ones you don’t want me to hit. It would be more impressive if they gave you a myriad of methods around the option they said and subtlety shoehorned you into it. But they don’t... it’d be like if doom showed you a screen at the end that said, “ha! We tricked you into killing demons”.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Bioshock is the peak of storytelling or anything. Peak of storytelling in an FPS, maybe, but as said that’s not exactly a high bar. :p I definitely agree the morality system was kind of pointless. I like the way the Little Sisters fit into the world, but not so much the way they fit into the game. Fighting Big Daddies is always just kind of annoying, and as you said there’s no real reason to harvest them. Not unless you like murdering children but if that’s the case you’ve got issues. The reasons you hate the twist are exactly why I like it. The game doesn’t trick you into doing anything; you’re just playing an FPS the way you’re playing an FPS. You don’t really give it a second thought, because you’re used to just being a one man murder machine, just like in every other shooty shooty pew pew game, following orders from your radio to kill the big bad man. In theory, you could see through Fontaine’s tricks, and turn against him, but since you know you’re playing a video game, you’d follow his orders even if you knew it was wrong. ‘Cause that’s how you progress the story. “Would you kindly” isn’t the game trying to say “Haha, we tricked you!” it’s a representation of the player in a sense. A twist of expectations. I feel like I’m not putting this into words well, but I hope that makes sense. On a side note, I’m very disappointed they didn’t do a similar thing with Polaris in Control. For the first little while of the game it felt like Polaris was a representation of the player, but they dropped that schtick pretty quickly. Made me sad. :(

Control is probably going to be one of the next games I play. After Twin Mirror. I hope the ball didn’t get dropped too hard. I had heard good things... though I realize hype at any level is dangerous. But then my bar for enjoyment is just that: enjoyment. Regarding “would you kindly”, you’re explaining it just fine. It’s just different strokes, I think. I get why it’s a twist. I get why it came as a shock to some. I just don’t find it clever. Now to be fair, I’m talking about from the perspective of the game development, not as a tool of the villain. It worked fine as a dramatic device in the story. As a book or a movie, I think it would have went off without a hitch. It’s the personal agency that the game gives where it runs into trouble for me. Which might dig at an underlying problem for me. In my opinion Bioshock is a better story than a game. So the gameplay ruins a lot of what the story could otherwise do. If that makes since. (Obviously this is all 1. Bioshock Infinite I enjoyed even less. And Bioshock 2 was just plain bad.)

Oh, Control is great. I have a few gripes about the game, but I really enjoyed it! I just feel there was one big missed opportunity. But, well, I’ll stop talking before I spoil something. :p I liked 2. :( It’s actually my favorite. The story wasn’t as good, but the gameplay was significantly better, and the story still wasn’t bad. Though, it’s worth noting I haven’t played it in forever. I see what you mean. I feel like where the game gives you agency is kind of part of what makes it clever, though. The phrase is only used for things most players would do immediately anyway, or things the game does actually force (like lowering your weapon). It definitely could’ve been done better, I think, but I dunno, I liked it. That’s definitely a valid point about Bioshock being a better story than game, though. I think I’d agree, but I’m glad it is a game because I don’t think I would’ve watched/read it otherwise. And I think that’s also why I prefer 2 despite 1’s better story; it’s not as good of a story, but it is a better game, I think.

Not trying to trash your opinion on 2 there. I already didn’t much enjoy the gameplay from 1 and played them back to back. Two didn’t change the formula, the story was not good, and I recall it was longer (maybe it just felt longer). Honestly, I feel the same about Infinite too. But that had a more interesting setting and there was more time between me and the other two when I played that. I think we’re just getting different things from the twist. That’s okay, though. For me, if a game is claiming ownership of my agency and convinces me to do something out of the ordinary, I’m onboard. You gave me a narrative reason or compulsion I couldn’t ignore. That’s impressive. And very difficult. (Like feeling bad about burning your companion cube in Portal). If I’m doing it anyway, it may work for the story, but it’s not inventive. It feels like working back from a solution. (Okay we got you here, how can we make it feel like you were our willing puppet all along... instead of you were our unwitting puppet the entire time... I’m not sure how. Maybe not give us a choice about a little sister. But there’s only one button prompt... I’m spitballing here for an example)

And, I guess that’s something to note, is I did enjoy the gameplay in both 1 & 2. 2 didn’t change the formula, but still added lots of small improvements (protecting Little Sisters, having a plasmid/gun at the same time, etc.). Infinite is the one I hate. It has the worst story, the worst gameplay, and the worst setting, imo. I’m not generally a big fan of FPS games, and Infinite is kind of everything I hate about them. I guess I see your point. I still liked it just because it played to our expectations, and turned them against us, which is always something I enjoy. I can completely see how it could feel like they tried to be clever without actually doing much, though.

Yeah. Infinite is just not a good game. This is one of the reasons I enjoy our discussions. While we don’t always share opinions, you always have well thought out reasonings. I respect that.