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Edited by ToasterTron2000:
10/9/2020 7:49:55 AM
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Sunsetting is good for the game. Here's why.
Do you people know how much of a pain in the *** it is to balance and design the game around everything released pre-Shadowkeep moving forward? Do you even care? Set aside your selfishness and personal vendettas and think about what is actually healthy for the game. Everything from pre-Shadowkeep is SO power-crept and was designed for a different sandbox and a different "Destiny 2" in terms of a game design standpoint. That vision of the game has obviously changed since then. So why should we, the community, perpetuate Bungie's design mistakes until the end of time? Sunsetting allows Bungie to bring the lethality of the sandbox down a few notches. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Think of all of the stupidly good things you would be bringing into Beyond Light had there not been sunsetting, armor included. Most of the items in question are from pre-Shadowkeep/Forsaken days are they not? So what is going to incentivize you to go for new content if your current gear is as good if not better than the new gear? Bungie can only make a finite number of better and better gear each content cycle. If this continues, eventually there's going to be a point where the gear is so suped up that it is a balancing and development nightmare, more than it was in Forsaken.
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2 Replies[quote]Do you people know how much of a pain in the *** it is to balance and design the game around everything released pre-Shadowkeep moving forward? Do you even care?[/quote] Nothing to balance, it's fine where it is and has been the past several years [quote]Set aside your selfishness and personal vendettas and think about what is actually healthy for the game. Everything from pre-Shadowkeep is SO power-crept and was designed for a different sandbox and a different "Destiny 2" in terms of a game design standpoint.[/quote]No it isnt, absolutely nothing pre-shadowkeep is power crept, blast furnace from forsaken is exactly as good as sacred providence. Gnawing is exactly as good as summoner. Spare rations is exactly as good as dire promise. This patter. repeats itself across every archtype of weapon [quote]That vision of the game has obviously changed since then. So why should we, the community, perpetuate Bungie's design mistakes until the end of time?[/quote]There arent mistakes, the guns are fine how they are. [quote]Sunsetting allows Bungie to bring the lethality of the sandbox down a few notches. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Think of all of the stupidly good things you would be bringing into Beyond Light had there not been sunsetting, armor included. Most of the items in question are from pre-Shadowkeep/Forsaken days are they not?[/quote] Stupidly good things? Outside maybe 2 pinnacle guns being revoker for trials and mountaintop for normal cruicble the rest of the thousands of gear are totally fine as is, there isnt "stupidly good" gear, there are just solid options which is why our pve builds are the most diversified theyve been in years [quote]So what is going to incentivize you to go for new content if your current gear is as good if not better than the new gear?[/quote] New perks or perk combos? Asthetics? Audio? Preffered version of grind? Feeling of freshness? Collections? The pve content itself which should be enjoyable to play? Content is offered, it's there for those that want it and optional for those that don't, we dont need nor should we force everyone to grind for every gun. [quote]Bungie can only make a finite number of better and better gear each content cycle. If this continues, eventually there's going to be a point where the gear is so suped up that it is a balancing and development nightmare, more than it was in Forsaken.[/quote] They haven't been making "better and better gear" they've been making the same level of guns and players by themselves can choose what they prefer to grind for and use, as I wrote above each and every archtype from Y2 is the same as thier Y3 counterparts The ONLY gain to be found from sunsetting is 2 fold for bungie and 0 for the players. Things good for bungie: 1. New gear gets used regardless of how bad it may be, this let's bungie be as lazy as ever with making the new stuff be at least average and the gear will still see use since players have few options 2. Bungie can (and as shown already have started) reuse old gear which gives them padded dlc gear numbers eg: "20 weapons are dropping this dlc!" when really 10 are copy/pastes and it makes players regrind for gear they grinded for years ago giving bungie free extended playtime hours That's why the change is being made, because why make players spend 100 hours grinding for thier god roll spare rations when you can make them do it several times? There is absolutely no upsides player wise and we've seen these same arguments made for dark below's sunset and taken kings - and both were so unpopular they were later reverted.
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Bungie staff
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If done right
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1 ReplyBungie: “Do you know how hard it is to balance the game around all the weapons and abilities and we ourselves designed and approved? We can’t do that!”
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1 ReplyI don't understand how retiring guns and then reissuing the [b]exact same guns with the exact same perks[/b] is good for the game. New gear is good. Regurgitating old content with no changes? Not something you want to celebrate. It's the single worst way to keep players chasing a carrot - by taking it away and replacing it with the exact same carrot.
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1 ReplyYou use balance as an excuse but if we had more frequent sandbox patches then it wouldn't be a problem. They take ages to balance overpowered stuff.
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Edited by TheArtist: 10/9/2020 9:29:25 PMTrying to garner sympathy for the developer's workload from having to tune and quality test a bloated loot table and sandbox...is a wasted effort. Gamers are too self-absorbed for that to be a persuasive argument. Your other argument is persuasive, but you need to reduce it to a bumper sticker in order to really drive the point home. [b][i] Question: "How do you make an 11th god-rolled 140 rpm hand cannon interesting?" Answer: "You can't without breaking the game."[/i][/b] 1. Without sunsetting, the only option is to keep making each hand cannon more powerful than the last one...and you break the game with power creep. 2. You stop giving the player power, and the player loses interest in chasing after hand cannons. 3. You nerf his other 10 hand cannons into the ground, so the 11th one is the only one worth using. [b]Which is just sunsetting done with NERFS.[/b] Which is what we've been living with for the last three years.
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Yeah, designing games are hard so we'll just remove all your hours in a looter-cgaracter development game and put you right back in that hamster wheel for the exact same reissued weapons and loot. Nor is Planned Obsolescence, to give Sunsetting it's proper name, sandbox balancing. Nor is this remotely removing OP, powercrept weapons, the opposite, they're increasing them, but doing so at Bungie's direction and NOT at player's choice.
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There is no such thing as “power creep” in a Rock Paper Scissors game with self levelling AI. Every issue this game has is because of poorly executed buffs/nerfs and lack of play testing by the designers. Crucible and pve should always have been adjusted separately... they had our vaults blown up at the start of D2 with the promise of “new improved selective adjustment coding” which could be implemented “on the fly”...😂😂😂 I haven’t seen much of that...
