Ok guys, so I messed up the calculations. The number of rounds isn't different, but a good chunk of the rest of my post is incorrect. I used the incorrect format with my math to determine ttk when I should have been using this formula: (60/rpm)×(# bullets-1). This formula is more accurate so I'll be posting the more correct numbers here and everything else I put will remain in the spoiler below. I feel like such a dumb ass and I'm sorry I mislead you guys. Actual pve ttk numbers: Autos: 720: (60/720)×(28-1)=2.25 600: (60/600)x(24-1)=2.30 450: (60/450)x(21-1)~2.66 360: (60/360)x(15-1)~2.33 Handcannons: 180: (60/180)x(7-1)=2.00 150: (60/150)x(6-1)=2.00 140: (60/140)x(6-1)~2.14 110: (60/110)x(5-1)~2.18 The squiggles just mean approximately. For the more simple ttk, the ones with squiggles are supposed to be rounded up the final digit as you can't round down time. [spoiler]Tl;Dr: Autos kill slower than handcannons against tanky targets and not just squishy targets, meaning autos are weaker both over time and in a burst, which is stupid considering the range actually achievable is almost identical on console. More often than not that 30+ meters you could get with a 600 rpm just isn't possible, even more so with 360s. 450s have lower range than 600s and putting out the crappiest dps of both handcannons AND auto rifles. 720s have like 20 meters at most, which is basically smg range for essentially a third of the damage smgs can put out. The long stuff: I did this test mainly to get a better understanding of how autos and handcannons perform against enemies with a bit more meat on them. The results were not as bad as I thought they would be to be perfectly honest with you but we're rather displeasing regardless. Obviously, against something with lower health, handcannons win by a mile, but that isn't the point of my test today as it's more important to me to find their potential ttk in pve vs something with a larger health pool. Here is the damage per bullet each weapon did at 730 (just pulled each archetype out from the collections) and how many rounds it took to kill that poor orange health bar -blam!-. Autos: 720: 2372, 28 rounds 600: 2795, 24 rounds 450: 3225, 21 rounds 360: 4469, 15 rounds Handcannons: 180: 10089, 7 rounds 150: 11946, 6 rounds 140: 12345, 6 rounds 110: 15980, 5 rounds Now I will show you the crucible ttk and number of bullets it takes to kill a guardian on average. The ttk values from crucible allow me to give a general time value for pve which you will see as you keep reading. Auto ttk w/bullets: 720: 0.83, 11 bullets. 600: 0.80, 9 bullets. 450: 0.93, 8 bullets. 360: 0.83, 6 bullets. Handcannon ttk w/bullets: 180: 1.00, 4 bullets. 150: 0.80, 3 bullets. 140: 0.87, 3 bullets. 110: 1.07, 3 bullets. So now let's take the number of bullets it took to kill the cabal and then divide it by the number of bullets it takes to kill a guardian. These values will be valuable for the next step. Auto: 720: 28 rounds/11 rounds~2.54x 600: 24 rounds/9 rounds~2.66x 450: 21 rounds/8 rounds~2.65x 360: 15 rounds/ 6 rounds~2.5x Handcannon: 180: 7 rounds/4 rounds~1.75x 150: 6 rounds/3 rounds~2x 140: 6 rounds/3 rounds~2x 110: 5 rounds/3 rounds~1.66x So now what this shows is a general amount of bullets it takes to kill the cabal vs a guardian and as you can see on the pve side autos take a larger amount on average to kill the same target vs handcannons when comparing the two. Now if we multiply this by the crucible ttk values I provided above, we can get a general ttk for pve against this single cabal. Autos: 720: 0.83 x 2.54 ~ 2.1082 seconds 600: 0.80 x 2.66 ~ 2.128 seconds 450: 0.93 x 2.65 ~ 2.4645 seconds 360: 0.83 x 2.50~ 2.075 seconds Handcannons: 180: 1.00 x 1.75 ~ 1.75 seconds 150: 0.80 x 2.00 ~ 1.60 seconds 140: 0.87 x 2.00 ~ 1.74 seconds 110: 1.07 x 1.66 ~ 1.77 seconds So from my results, which may or may not be correct, I found that autos consistently kill this same cabal at a slower rate under optimal conditions. I purposely didn't include the impossibility of perfectly timing your shots on a handcannon because of a big value I purposely overlooked on autos which is the recoil. Autos have absolutely no way on console to hit 100% headshots because of the recoil and even on pc it isn't as consistently achievable as it would be with a handcannon. If bungies goal with auto rifles was to give them more range in exchange for lower damage (using scouts as the reasoning behind this) it wouldn't be as problematic...but this just isn't the case at all. Auto rifles can't consistently reach their optimal range on console due to the recoil. Handcannons on the other hand, have bloom to create a negative aspect to handcannons which more often than not has little to no effect in pve and a more noticable but not terrible effect in pvp because of how few bullets it actually takes to kill. Autos should be among the top damage over time primaries in Destiny, but they consistently lose to weapons that do everything while sporting the same general effective range. I don't care that people think autos are easier to use when there's just so much going for handcannons that even their disadvantage, which I still have not figured out what that is yet, is vastly overshadowed by its HUGE benefits. Autos only benefit is their greatest limiting factor and it just snowballs further and further the more you actually think about them and use them. This isn't to say that handcannons are an easier weapon type to use, it's Just that autos suck so bad you have to practice or pray that they get the job done more often than pretty much any other weapon and it should never include both pray and practice. So my suggestion is at least a 15% buff across the board. This would still keep handcannons as the better burst damage primary, but would give autos the advantage over time, which they currently don't have.[/spoiler]