I still think that seperating PVP from PVE, would be a horrible idea.

I think overall that Bungie still fancies themselves as a leader in the PvP scene, or at least, trying to get back to that. As you alluded to, they tried to get PvP to really be the focus of D2, hoping to regain their prominence in the PvP scene. That worked out well, huh?

[quote]Don’t Fix What Isn’t Broken[/quote] When it comes to Bungie this holds more truth then most would care to admit. The constant changing things is a huge issue with this company that 95% of the time it creates a lot more issues for this game. Leaving the live team always struggling because the higher ups deliberate poor actions that leaves no foundation and they don't know how to work from one.

I honestly think at this point D2 is too far gone. With as much improvements to the base game it will still be average at best. It'll have to be Destiny 3 at that point, for another chance at a game really worth playing. But by then I don't think the good faith and reputation into the the series has done in helping. I don't think Bungie really understands how much they're playing catch up with the most loyal of loyal fans out there. It continues to be a real disservice with the culture of how the workplace is run, no amount of in-ggame improvements really can be sustainable. Shit studios don't make amazing long term games for a reason. Because they can't keep up or identify what made their game great in the first place. With Bungie they lost that eye for talent and we can curse and speculate on the forums all we want, for years on out. But if the people at Bungie don't have that eye for talent like they did in the Halo days. It doesn't matter. Sure the visuals are nice but that's the only saving grace right now and they're banking on that hard. Everything now is just all talk, the 01/11/2018 reveal, the forum discussions blah blah, all this doesn't matter if the right people aren't in the right places. Bungie is very clearly missing the right people everything else is just all talk. We can talk for days about how this game could be better, again it doesn't mean anything if someone at Bungie can't take the reigns and actually be pro-active and not reactive and have that foresight to tackle an issue before it becomes one. They need someone who makes the game better because they have vision, not because they had a bunch of universal criticism thrown against them daily and they're force to try to 'listen' to what could be better under each community claim. The whole thing is just backwards. You make a good game first, than you keep it good. Not you release a bad game and then try to make it good. The very fact eververse was greenlit initially and then purposely progressed into something more shows that greed is the endgoal here under that iniative. You gotta step back and think. This is the mind of Bungie and what they want to do with their baby? They're not what you think they are based on your comments. You're still naive and I mean the people on this board.

I’m enjoying Destiny at present. I even treated myself to a full set of Dawning Armour for my Titan, and got that lovely Exotic Lotus Shell to go into my collection. I enjoy it all terribly Perhaps too much for a grown man anyway.🧐 I’ve spent thousands of pounds on the franchise, not just thousands of hours in game. My biggest gripe, that I hope gets addressed is the ammo situation in PvP... I had a 14 kill streak this evening in a good old game of control, and as I was just disseminating my 15th I ran out of ammo. No primary what so ever. That’s never happened to me before...🕹🙃 I want primary ammo drops in the crucible please. I beg you Bungie, please, primary ammo n the crucible.... I know I can masterworks my gear, thus enabling a larger magazine and ammo pool, but please, please can I have primary ammo drop even if it’s just once or something a game. 🎤🕹 That way I could get me 20...💥 And, before it would even let me go and get revenge, for my lack of ammo, Shax called the game off again. I thought he wasn’t allowed to do that anymore...📞🕹 How else am I going to get a 20 killstreak if Shax keeps calling the games over before they are over and there’s no primary ammo drops?... Please Bungie, think about the crucible players, not the crucible.🤓 Make it fun again..

Balance is what is ruining Destiny. We can't have balance in a game where we're supposed to feel powerful.

I actually just booted up BL2 yesterday after playing D2! Lol

I disagree. The Taken King was the pinnacle of Destiny. The Dreadnought, Raid, and Strikes were all excellently made and highly playable. I'm not sure why Bungie didn't make Destiny in its image.

I concur with the points the article pointed out. The Destiny franchise is in trouble and it really has NOTHING to do with the whole #removeeververse 'movement'. Eververse is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. I believe the Destiny franchise is in trouble because of the drastic changes Bungie implemented between D1 (especially by Y3) and D2. You cannot take the majority of 'lessons' learned over 3 years and just completely change the direction of a franchise. Your dedicated player base will just not accept such a drastic change, as we have seen. There is a great deal wrong with D2 and it stems from the management of development. This franchise is like a wildly spinning compass. You never know what direction it is going. This lack of direction was apparent from the very beginning. Until SOMEONE at the management level of Bungie decides to pick a direction for this franchise and sticks with that decision this game franchise will suffer. The information we receive on 01/11/2018 will be a watershed moment for this franchise IMO.

[quote]I came across this article, and while the Article concerns Borderlands 3, I thought the writer made some good observations concerning issues with Destiny 2. I'll highlight them below for discussion: Here's the link: [url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/01/08/what-borderlands-3-should-learn-from-the-growing-pains-of-destiny-and-the-division/?partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#f67fe924b032[/url] Pertinent Quotes with my personal commentary: [quote] Make Sure You Have A Long-Term Endgame Plan At Launch While your initial leveling-based story content needs to be a solid introduction for the game, everyone knows at this point that if you’re playing a loot shooter, the plan is to be in it for the long haul. Both Destiny and The Division ran into issues where there was either no plan or a bad plan for post-level cap content at launch, and it took many months and years to develop a long-term endgame for players that was satisfying. Bake this in from launch, don’t spend eons figuring it out after the fact.[/quote] I agree with this outlook. The endgame in this game hasn't meant ANYTHING since Y1. In Y2/Y3, why run the nightfall? It gave arguably WORSE loot than heroic strikes because of the loot pool incorporated things like cosmetics, emotes, sparrows, 3oC, etc., and they were more time consuming to do. The nightfall is HARDER than heroic strikes, so it should give better rewards. Ditto the Raid. The raid is the hardest piece of PVE content available. Why would you give us rewards that are only on par with everything else - or worse, just cosmetic? Bring back the elite-tier endgame loot like we had in D1Y1, and I promise you we will run/rerun this content over and over and over. I went from running 300+ raids in D1Y1 - not just because I "had" to, but ALSO because it was enjoyable to do so. But yes, chasing white whales provided incentive and motivation to DO it. [quote] Stay Away From PvP Borderlands has done a good job of this so far, but I think it can really differentiate itself from The Division and Destiny by sticking with the Diablo route and avoiding PvP entirely. Why? Doesn’t that give the game less dimension? Not really, considering [b]there are a zillion other PvP shooters to compete with and the market is oversaturated.[/b] But the point is that [b]if you can focus solely on PvE, that allows you to make your loot and gear truly wild, not worried about “balance”[/b] in the traditional sense. The Division and [b]Destiny are constantly restrained by their PvP modes when it comes to weapon/skill design,[/b] but Borderlands doesn’t have to be. Go crazy with that advantage.[/quote] Also agree. I don't think that the existence of PVP in Destiny is bad, but I think how PVP is TREATED is the real issue. After the launch of Trials, PVP was taken too seriously in a game built around loot. Trials introduced a competitive element into the game and simply just rotted the game as the needs of the competitive player minority too precedent over the needs and desires of the remaining 90% of the community that didn't play Trials. The solution is to remove the competitive PVP (make it its own separate mode and sell it as COMPLETELY OPTIONAL DLC with its own loot, gear, PVP rules, etc.) and simply go back to the D1Y1 PVP ethos, which is that it is not the focus of the game, just a test of gear against other guardians, and not a super-competitive experience. [quote] Improve the Game With Your Community After Launch The Division has gotten this right in a way Destiny has not the last few years. Massive has literally flown out top players and streamers in order to address the game’s problems and fix them, while Bungie usually does the same after all the decisions are made. Obviously the final call is the developer’s, but Massive has really used its community as a resource to perfect the game, while Bungie is constantly being hammered by its playerbase who feels like the developer isn’t listening. Be the former, not the latter, and you’ll have an easier time improving your game over time.[/quote] All I have to say about this is that the Community has posted a TON of good ideas for this game over the years. From how to fix the progression system to how to allow more weapons to obtain elemental burn from doing endgame content, to quest ideas and side missions, events, etc. All of them were added to the wishlist and virtually ignored. Instead of giving us HIGHLY requested items like separating PVE from PVP or increasing endgame participation by adding in OMM, in-game LFG and recruiting, etc. Bungie gives us their own twists on things which just plain don't work out. They need to treat us like people eating at a resturaunt. When we order the medium-rare Ribeye steak, they shouldn't be bringing us an over-cooked sirloin. Just give us what we want. [quote]Don’t Fix What Isn’t Broken Another Destiny-specific problem here, but Destiny 2 seemed to lose its way because it felt like it was throwing away three years of lessons from Destiny 1, fixing some things, but also changing a lot of stuff that was in perfect working order before (consumable shaders, really?). Honestly, given how great Borderlands 2 was, I do think that just…more of that, with new content and a few improvements, might work very well for Gearbox. BL2 remains one of the best loot shooters out there, something The Division, Destiny and Diablo players return to years later once they get bored with those games. Gearbox got a lot of things right before anyone else was even trying to open up the genre. Don’t reinvent the wheel if you don’t have to.[/quote] Again, this paragraph speaks for itself. Stuff like elemental primaries in D1Y1, to having rare, elite-tier exotics to chase after, to the Primary/Special/Heavy system and the D1 style subclasses - all weren't broken so there was no need to tweak them. But Bungie did in order to chase after their vision for how PVP should play. When arguably, PVP shouldn't be the central focus in a looter game. Overall, it appears to me that the rebranding of the game was due to the fact that they tried to shift the focus of this game from PVE to PVP, which was a mistake. It lead them to making a TON of mistakes with this game in order to finally make the game play more like Halo. Well, now it does. But in doing so, they've effectively broken the entire game. Even people still playing the game say they're sticking around hoping the game will improve. But that would require a fundamental shift in the core gameplay philosophy D2 launched with. Anyways, I just thought the article was interesting and could spark some useful discussion. IMO, the game needs to go back to being more PVE oriented with changes aimed at providing the kind of PVE experience we had in D1, particularly earlier on before the game went full-steam ahead with participation trophies. This really does require that PVP take a back seat and simply exist as an alternative activity - much like it does in other PVE-oriented games. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to discuss.[/quote] I agree with much of what you say in these forums. But it seems to me that a convenient by-product of balancing PVP (eliminating more powerful armor and weapons) in D2 was that Bungie could now lock the most sought after items (now all cosmetic) behind Tess and no one could claim "pay to win". Just sayin.

I have a feeling that once Borderlands 3 (or whatever they're gonna call it) drops no one is even gonna care enough to troll the forums anymore

[quote][b]there are a zillion other PvP shooters to compete with and the market is oversaturated.[/b][/quote]This is something I've also observed, though I tend to apply it specifically to the FPS subgenre. I don't think I've ever read this claim outside my own Bnet posts before. The Destiny concept has definitely been undermined ever since Bungie decided to prioritise PvP over PvE with HoW.

[quote]After the launch of Trials, PVP was taken too seriously in a game built around loot. Trials introduced a competitive element into the game and simply just rotted the game as the needs of the competitive player minority too precedent over the needs and desires of the remaining 90% of the community that didn't play Trials. [/quote] I love this quote. This is something I have said since I started PvP in Destiny 1. BIG MISTAKE taking PvP too seriously and adding the competitive element to it. It's just stupid to do this in a loot based space magic game. The result is Destiny 2 has become a generic shooter in a video game world that is littered with FPS games.....many who do it better. I would rather see PvP removed completely from Destiny at this point. I'm saying this and I was a big time PvP player in Destiny 1.